A No Fun Topic About a Problem

[TealBox]

As the title states, this thread won't be the usual quirky kind we have here, it's only in the Caritas section because it doesn't fit anywhere else on the forum, and I only thought to post it here on HtH about an hour ago. So about this problem.
•I know a girl, Aadi (replacement names taken from here as a safety measure), she's my friend, she's much smarter than I am but I get better grades because she doesn't do her homework, two weeks from today she turns 15, and she's a bit over dramatic (I once told her she was speaking crazy talk and should stop smoking pot, she threatened to stop being my friend if I didn't take it back and was very serious about it).
•Aadi was best friends with Aaliyah until six months ago. Now if anyone even dares to speak Aaliyah's name around Aadi they get their head bitten off.
•A few months ago I told Aadi I loved her (just as a friend, not in a romantic sense). She told me the only person who had ever told her that before was Aaliyah and that I should never say it again because it reminded her too much of her ex-friend.
•Three nights ago Aadi, myself, and four or five of our friends were in a Yahoo! Conference together. Since we were all teenagers the conversation very quickly turned to sex. Somehow bondage came up and I had to advocate to the rest of the group that pain and pleasure were very close to each other (not that I'd really know in this case, it was just talk).
•After the conference Aadi and I were the only two still online. Out of nowhere she said, "I love you too," of course in reply to the time I'd said it months earlier. She then kept asking me if I thought pain was pretty and continued on to tell me how up until four months ago she used to cut herself and none of us had ever noticed (she had always publicly denounced cutting). She told me how the kids who were all depressive and suicidal and just wanted attention were losers, but that to some people it was really beautiful. She then told me that when I got online the next day she'd be the same girl I had always known and not the one I had just talked to.
•I was a little worried after that talk, but she had made it clear that she had stopped cutting and was never suicidal, plus she had trusted me and told me she loved me, so as much as I figured as long as that habit stayed in the past things would be okay.
•The next day I put an IP tracker on my Xanga (online journal, all of my friends have them), simply because I'd been meaning to for a while now. While I was looking through the records it gave me to see who had been visiting my site I noticed two Xanga users had the same IP address. One name was Aadi's screen name, the second was a name I'd never seen before. After asking Aadi about it and looking at the mystery Xanga I quickly realized Aadi had a second Xanga. Instead of the posts being about how she still hated Aaliyah or how she wanted to go back the school because she was so bored (the topics that show up the most on her Xanga I knew about) she instead was writing about her aunt's cancer and how she had mustered the courage to tell me she loved me. I didn't read all of it because I quit as soon as I realized it was her. I did see the blogrings she subscribed to though. I think two were about having secret blogs, but the one that really stood out was a ring for rape survivors. Now that doesn't mean anything for sure. If you went to my site you might have noticed I'm in a blogring about Ireland even though I've lived in America all my life (my friend who has been to Ireland made that ring and asked me to join). Aadi could have joined the blogring to show sympathy for someone she knows who had that happen to them (if you knew her you'd know she likes to be an activist of sorts. She once organized a day of silence as support for all of the gay and bi kids in our school).
•So here's my problem. I now know that a very close friend of mine is a former cutter and keeps a secret Xanga that she doesn't want any of her friends to know about (she made me promise not to tell any of our friends about it and asked that I never return to that site and read it). I also have reason to believe that my friend is either a rape victim herself or has a close friend/family member who is one. Since she has shown know signs of being in danger at the moment, I don't want to go to anyone I know in real life, since like she said, if her parents found out they'd send her to the psychiatric hospital. So I'm just a bit worried for her. Is having a sort of secret, secondary identity a normal thing for teenage girls to do? Am I an idiot for believing my friend when she tells me she can deal with these things herself or am I a jerk for thinking she could seriously hurt herself despite her telling me time and time again (even before I knew this stuff) that she only wanted people to pay attention to her when she talked about suicide (yes, looking back there were a gigantic pile of clues pointing to the fact that she was keeping potentially dangerous secrets from all her friends, don't think I don't feel stupid for missing each and every one of them)? Oh, and if it matters any, when Aadi was 8 her grandmother had a stroke. Since then her whole family has had to take turns babysitting (for lack of a better term) the woman. Aadi often says that her parents had no right to ask her to watch her grandmother when she was so young and feels that she lost part of her childhood to the woman. That's her second most common complaint next to ranting about what a horrible person Aaliyah is.

I just figured, "Hey, a bunch of you guys are intelligent adults who live too far away to tattle on my friend. Why not ask them what they think?" So that's why we now have this post here interrupting the normally joyful chat of a long canceled show.

[Charisma69]

Wow, that's alot of heavy stuff. I have a friend who is a cutter, and she was raped when she was 17. She was also molested by her Father when she was a kid.

It's not always easy being friends with a cutter because if you make a big fuss about their cutting then they'll start lying to you about it and hide it from you. I imagine she keeps the secret blog to let her real feelings out to people who don't know her and as such are less likely to judge her.

My friend feels judged by her friends that know she cuts. She had started hiding the fact from them but she still tells me about it because I just listen to her and don't try to tell her it's wrong. I'm worried about her but the only real thing I can do for her is listen without judging. She's more likly to talk to me if I don't make her feel she has to hide things from me.

The suicide aspect is far more tricky. You can never really tell if someone is saying it just for talk or if they mean it. I go with the theory that anyone who mentions suicide means it but not everyone will go through with it. Since she's self-medicating by using drugs you may want to keep a sharp eye out, especially if she moves into using heavier drugs.

I'm not sure what to tell you to do though, on the one hand you don't want to betray her trust especially since she doesn't seem to have that many people that she does trust. If you tell on her then you won't be able to know how she really feels later.

On the other hand she seems like she's going through some really serious issues and it's too much for you to deal with them by yourself. She does need help but it's not always easy to figure out exactly how to help.

On the plus side I do know a few girls that have gotten past a rape, or attempted rape and made it out the other side with their sanity intact. Not all of them actually had any kind of professional help in order to do so. Others can't let go of the past, such as my friend, and it continues to haunt them so much that it affects their daily life - something like that will always haunt someone but some people can get to a healthy point in their life where they can be happy and others can't.

Since she's letting her feelings out and not bottling them up she has a better chance, especially since she's talking to a support group of some sort.

I don't know what to tell you to do though. This is something really serious and I'd hate to give you bad advice, especially since the topic hits so close to home.

q'cat always has wise things to say, and Feigy is more qualified to give you advice. I'd wait and see what they have to say on the subject. In the mean time just try to be there for you friend so she knows she has at least one person in this world that she can talk to.

[tjaman]

There's a reason that there are psychiatric hospitals. In my own naive way, I believe they exist to make sick people better. And your friend sounds sick. She sounds like her reactions to consensus reality are not healthy ones.

She's a troubled soul who is in pain and needs help.

I did not realize this when I was in high school and a friend came to me about her stepfather sexually abusing her for ten years. I realize she told me and my friends and made us promise not to tell anyone because she desperately, desperately needed to tell someone and we were "safe." We didn't have any power or authority to change anything in her life but while we provided a disempowered palliative for her pain, what she needed was a doctor.

That situation is not a universal situation, but I was exactly your age when I was told about this and she suffered for at least two more years before getting the actual help she needed. Yes, it was going to cause pain to her family. Yes it was going to disrupt her life.

And exactly what about that situation didn't scream out for disruption?

You've discovered uncomfortable facts about your friend. You can ignore them and let her keep trying to deal with it on her own, or you can get her the help she really, really needs.

In that you discovered this in information she's posted for the entire world to see, potentially, she seems to feel the need to tell someone about it.

Maybe the right people need to hear about it.

My $.02, since you asked.

[Dr. Purple Goddess]

Teal,

Thank you for feeling you can come and share your concern with us. From your post, I've determined that you are indeed a great friend. Don't beat yourself up about not knowing about this "other life" your friend seems to have. If she didn't want people to know, and you wouldn't want that for her, than those two elements combined, can be the best camouflage in the world. Top it off with not wanting to see it even if there are clues, and you got a shocking surprise when you're finally clued in.

Honestly, I think your friend is reacting quite normally and healthy. Granted, cutting isn't really a good thing. But it shows she has coping skills outside of just drowning her troubles in drugs or alcohol.

Not to diminish the seriousness of this issue, but, when we learn a coping skill, it involves a thought process and a set of behaviors. The thought process is usually something related to what they consider as "not having control over their lives". Cutting, is a thing they can control. We can't control the pain we receive in life. But if you inflict it on yourself, than there is an illusion of control there that wasn't before.

I would not be surprised if your friend was the victim of rape. Statistically, cutters, have in fact experienced emotional and physical trauma in their lives that often lead them to self-mutilation.

Ok, I guess you probably already have heard all this crap so I'll skip to what I think your wanting.

I cannot give you "advice" per se....What I can do is make some suggestions.

Respect what she says and do not visit the places she does not want you to go. If you crowd her, or invade what she sees as an "off-limits" area in her life, she will fall back on her coping skills for a sense of control.

I know this sounds weird, but generally cutters are not in danger of suicide. As I said before, cutting is their coping skill and for them, they feel, it works. It's the people with no coping skills, no hope, and feel that there's no way out, that you have to worry about.

All that is not to say that it shouldn't be a concern...just that if she's utilizing skills to deal with life, than she most likely has hope...though she'd probably never admit it.

Some signs to look for if a person is close to suicide, a sudden change in mood or behavior, specifically happier, generous, and like the problems of the world have been solved.....those people, (if they aren't bipolar...and of course sometimes when they are) have made a decision. They have decided that now that there is a definite decision or solution to all their problems...their last days on Earth are pretty care free. You know how you feel when you've struggled over a tough decision, and when a solution finally comes, how good it feels to have the weight lifted?....well...if you notice that kind of talk or behavior with your friend and there's no accounting for this change (IE. no change in life events or problems, or vague descriptions of problem solving solutions when asked) then perhaps you might be a bit concerned and pay closer attention and even tell them your concern as well as reporting it to someone who knows about crisis intervention and suicide, or even the authorities.

Ok, specifically about your friend. I think her admission of love for you, was either a manipulation (that sounds worse than it is), or an admission of her appreciation for you.

When I say manipulation, I just mean she is using that as a way to assure you of how "ok" she is. Whether that is true or not. I think she probably cares about you enough to want to keep you from worrying about her....and of course this is silly as you will no matter what. But, being a supportive friend and listening to her without giving solutions to her, is the best thing you can do. Giving advice can often feel like a judgment for someone who just needs to talk.

From what you tell us, I think you are a wonderful friend, and if she has friends like you, I have no doubt she will be ok.

Oh, and don't tell her to "stop doing" whatever it is...drugs, alcohol, cutting, etc. Instead, introduce ideas of what she could do instead....rather than saying "You need to quit smoking all that pot" you'd be better off saying, "have you ever tried Yoga? I've heard good things about it as a way to relax bla bla bla". Maybe talk about it as something you are interested in doing or trying.

Maybe tell her some of your "less dangerous" coping skills for when you feel life is getting out of control.

I'm not saying "Once a cutter, always a cutter" but, once you've developed a coping skill like that, that "seems" to be working...it's hard to let it go...especially in a pinch. So alternate things for her to do in those pinches are always good. Maybe you have some that you know of that work....

Sometimes a rubber band on the wrist helps....you snap it against your wrist when you feel the urge to cut. It provides the requisite discomfort without breaking the skin...or being dangerous. Not as satisfying, but it never is when you are trying to stop doing something.

I don't know if I made any sense in that post, but, I hope it helps you at least in some way.

You can only do so much for people....ultimately, they have to take steps for themselves, and I think your friend being able to find an outlet that maybe she's just not ready to share yet...shows signs of a healthy coping skill.

I could tell you about all my weird fecked up things I used to do after my abuse and subsequently my emotional problems....but suffice it to say, I managed to get past the scary parts without professional help. However, I had an emotional breakdown when my older brother died in 1997. So, I sought help because I honestly didn't feel I had it in me to start the healing all over again by myself.

I thought there would be a relapse when my twin died in January...(lots of family issues tied into my abuse hence the triggers) Oh and don't get me wrong, I'm still recovering...but It was quite a bit easier to come back this time.

So, as Cordy said, sometimes people need professional help, sometimes they manage all on their own. Either way, it doesn't make you weak. It just means you need someone else who isn't in the thick of it with you to help you figure things out and find skills to help yourself.

I'd better quit blathering on about this...I suspect you've fallen asleep already LOL. But good luck, and show understanding....don't give advice unless directly asked...and remember, there is no specific set of symptoms that can tell you whether a person is suicidal. All you can do is let them know how you feel.

If you believe your friend is suicidal however, you should call a suicide hotline and perhaps tell them the situation....that way, it's anonymous and you aren't betraying your friend.

feel free to contact me if you have further questions or concerns. You are a great friend Teal, and I think your friend is in good hands if she has friends like you. Take care

[TealBox]

charisma69 said:

Since she's self-medicating by using drugs you may want to keep a sharp eye out, especially if she moves into using heavier drugs.

I think you misread that. She's very anti-drugs. She's ended a couple friendships with people because they started using drugs and got sick of her telling them how bad they were. Even though she is keeping a secret life and everything I feel that I can say with over 99.9% sureness she's isn't on anything. I told her to stop smoking pot in a joking sense. That's just how over dramatic (I don't mean that in a mean way) she is that even though she knew I was joking she still was deeply offended by the comment.

[Dr. Purple Goddess]

tealbox said:

charisma69 said:

Since she's self-medicating by using drugs you may want to keep a sharp eye out, especially if she moves into using heavier drugs.

I think you misread that. She's very anti-drugs. She's ended a couple friendships with people because they started using drugs and got sick of her telling them how bad they were. Even though she is keeping a secret life and everything I feel that I can say with over 99.9% sureness she's isn't on anything.

ooh i misunderstood that too...if somewhat by proxy lol

which doesn't mean she's any less likely to be in trouble....but it does increase her odds of being able to find healthy ways of coping. And don't forget, her writing these things down someplace is actually a good coping skill. Her not telling you is just her not ready to share yet. I suspect she feels like she can handle it on her own...hopefully all that smarts of hers will lend her to telling you when she's ready. And if she knows you've read from those secret places...than as long as you don't treat her any differently or negatively, I thin a little time is all it will take.

[TealBox]

Well, you've all given me some great advice, or more, non-advice. Either way it was helpful. I've had one voice in my head telling me to just trust her and another voice telling me to go and play the hero and a third voice (or maybe the first voice again) telling me how very stupid the second voice is. I don't think she's suicidal, but I am afraid. I don't know what she is and is not capable of keeping from her friends. I think she's taking steps though. This is usually how she does stuff. She slowly works up a ladder you could say. Like last year when she had a crush on a guy she first told a girl she only knew through class, she then told me, and then she finally told the guy. Or with poetry, when I first showed her the stuff I wrote and told her about the Algonquin (this is back when the Algonquin e-mailed each other weekly) she told me she would never be able to show people her poems. She later joined AllPoetry and posted a couple of hers and very soon after invited her friends to go join and read her stuff. Both are considerably smaller feats than coming out and talking about whatever it is that happened to her, but she definitely has a pattern she uses to build up bravery that I've seen her use again and again through out my friendship with her. She started a journal to write about her problems and then privately came out to me about one of them, I could be completely wrong but those two facts seems like she is taking steps. The reason I'm willing to keep her secrets for her instead of calling her parents/professionals is because I can see the signs of her bravery pattern being used here, still, when your friend tells you they're physically wounding themselves to deal with emotinal pain you start to worry.

[Dr. Purple Goddess]

tealbox said:

Well, you've all given me some great advice, or more, non-advice. Either way it was helpful. I've had one voice in my head telling me to just trust her and another voice telling me to go and play the hero and a third voice (or maybe the first voice again) telling me how very stupid the second voice is. I don't think she's suicidal, but I am afraid. I don't know what she is and is not capable of keeping from her friends. I think she's taking steps though. This is usually how she does stuff. She slowly works up a ladder you could say. Like last year when she had a crush on a guy she first told a girl she only knew through class, she then told me, and then she finally told the guy. Or with poetry, when I first showed her the stuff I wrote and told her about the Algonquin (this is back when the Algonquin e-mailed each other weekly) she told me she would never be able to show people her poems. She later joined AllPoetry and posted a couple of hers and very soon after invited her friends to go join and read her stuff. Both are considerably smaller feats than coming out and talking about whatever it is that happened to her, but she definitely has a pattern she uses to build up bravery that I've seen her use again and again through out my friendship with her. She started a journal to write about her problems and then privately came out to me about one of them, I could be completely wrong but those two facts seems like she is taking steps. The reason I'm willing to keep her secrets for her instead of calling her parents/professionals is because I can see the signs of her bravery pattern being used here, still, when your friend tells you they're physically wounding themselves to deal with emotinal pain you start to worry.

Well, it's important you know, that you have a legitimate concern here. But just continue being a supportive friend.

I was exactly the same way with my friends. I think somewhere in the back of my mind, I wanted people to know the pain I was in, but I didn't feel I deserved, or needed all the fuss that would come from just coming out with it. So, I tested the waters a lot. If I felt my friends were shocked or thought of me negatively for the way I felt or what had happened to me, I immediately backed off....keep in mind, none of my friends never thought I was less of a person because of what had happened to me....I was projecting how I felt about myself into their reactions. It's an irrational thought process, but it's also symptomatic of trauma.

While I wasn't forced to give up my childhood for an ailing relative....there are similarities...I was forced to give up my childhood because my feeling of safety was taken away from me. I was abused by the very people who were supposed to protect me from the bad in this world.

The comparison comes when your caregivers are too busy with someone else that they leave you to fend for yourself or even expect you to provide safety for another person when you don't even have that level of safety yourself yet. And at 8 yrs old, you don't have that. So, in order to feel safe, you find things that you have control over, that you can do that no one else can dictate....that makes you feel safe....even if it's potentially dangerous to your health, it serves a purpose.

I say, your friend probably has a good head on her shoulders, and you should just be there for her. But do a little research on cutting...so that maybe you can help her through the times when she relapses...and she will by the way.

[Charisma69]

tealbox said:

charisma69 said:

Since she's self-medicating by using drugs you may want to keep a sharp eye out, especially if she moves into using heavier drugs.

I think you misread that. She's very anti-drugs. She's ended a couple friendships with people because they started using drugs and got sick of her telling them how bad they were. Even though she is keeping a secret life and everything I feel that I can say with over 99.9% sureness she's isn't on anything. I told her to stop smoking pot in a joking sense. That's just how over dramatic (I don't mean that in a mean way) she is that even though she knew I was joking she still was deeply offended by the comment.

Oh, sorry about that. I thought you meant she was actually smoking pot. That's self-medicating, but you were really just saying it as an expression.

My friends and I say that when we think someone is doing something silly. We'll say "you need to get off the drugs" but we don't mean it literally either.

I say that sometimes online and people who don't know what I mean tend to think I really mean they're on drugs. Expressions are kinda funny that way, sorry for the confusion.

[Charisma69]

drfeigypants said:

Honestly, I think your friend is reacting quite normally and healthy. Granted, cutting isn't really a good thing. But it shows she has coping skills outside of just drowning her troubles in drugs or alcohol.

Not to diminish the seriousness of this issue, but, when we learn a coping skill, it involves a thought process and a set of behaviors. The thought process is usually something related to what they consider as "not having control over their lives". Cutting, is a thing they can control. We can't control the pain we receive in life. But if you inflict it on yourself, than there is an illusion of control there that wasn't before.

That's exactly how my friend describes why she cuts. We had a nice conversation about it a few weeks ago. She explained it in pretty much that same way. Made me glad I was just listening to her instead of being judgy and trying to give her advice.

drfeigypants said:

"advice" per se....What I can do is make some suggestions.

Respect what she says and do not visit the places she does not want you to go. If you crowd her, or invade what she sees as an "off-limits" area in her life, she will fall back on her coping skills for a sense of control.

I know this sounds weird, but generally cutters are not in danger of suicide. As I said before, cutting is their coping skill and for them, they feel, it works. It's the people with no coping skills, no hope, and feel that there's no way out, that you have to worry about.

All that is not to say that it shouldn't be a concern...just that if she's utilizing skills to deal with life, than she most likely has hope...though she'd probably never admit it.

That's what I wanted to suggest but I wasn't sure if I was right or not. I just know people who have had a troubled life and sometimes all they really need is just someone to listen and not judge them.

drfeigypants said:

Oh, and don't tell her to "stop doing" whatever it is...drugs, alcohol, cutting, etc. Instead, introduce ideas of what she could do instead....rather than saying "You need to quit smoking all that pot" you'd be better off saying, "have you ever tried Yoga? I've heard good things about it as a way to relax bla bla bla". Maybe talk about it as something you are interested in doing or trying.

What Feigy says is true. If I told my friend to stop she'd stop talking to me about it. Most of her friends have told her to stop, or they've acted horrified about what she's doing. So she puts on a front for them and acts like everything is ducky when it's not.

Also, her Mom had her locked up when she was a teenager. She won't tell her Mom about her issues now because she doesn't want to be locked up again.

Overall that was a wonderful post Feigy. You give really good advice, to all of us. That helped me out with some of my friends issues. I'm glad to know that I'm on the right track by just being there for her as opposed to trying to get her to stop.

[Dr. Purple Goddess]

/me Blushes profusely

[Charisma69]

tjaman said:

There's a reason that there are psychiatric hospitals. In my own naive way, I believe they exist to make sick people better. And your friend sounds sick. She sounds like her reactions to consensus reality are not healthy ones.

She's a troubled soul who is in pain and needs help.

I did not realize this when I was in high school and a friend came to me about her stepfather sexually abusing her for ten years. I realize she told me and my friends and made us promise not to tell anyone because she desperately, desperately needed to tell someone and we were "safe." We didn't have any power or authority to change anything in her life but while we provided a disempowered palliative for her pain, what she needed was a doctor.

That situation is not a universal situation, but I was exactly your age when I was told about this and she suffered for at least two more years before getting the actual help she needed. Yes, it was going to cause pain to her family. Yes it was going to disrupt her life.

And exactly what about that situation didn't scream out for disruption?

You've discovered uncomfortable facts about your friend. You can ignore them and let her keep trying to deal with it on her own, or you can get her the help she really, really needs.

In that you discovered this in information she's posted for the entire world to see, potentially, she seems to feel the need to tell someone about it.

Maybe the right people need to hear about it.

My $.02, since you asked.

I used to work with troubled youth in a children's home so I know first hand that sometimes locking people up can be the worst thing for a person.

It depends largely on where a person is locked up. Professional help can be helpful, but it can also be hurtful.

There were quite a few girls in the home that were cutters. They all had horrid childhoods, their files were just so sad to read. It's hard to believe people can treat children like that.

The thing is, being locked in that home wasn't helpful to some of those girls. It just depended on who was working that day, and what kinds of issues the other girls they were locked up with had.

The people who are largely taking care of people locked in these homes have no real training in how to deal with their issues. They are just getting paid a few dollars more than minimum wage to babysit the kids. Some of the people would treat those kids like they were criminals. They would treat them like they were beneath them.

Celeste and I rarely had anyone going off during our shifts because we would take the time to listen to the kids. We would do stuff with them, play games, bring in movies, etc. But the other shift was another story.

Kids would get in fights, try to run away, and the other shift was always getting injured. They didn't do anything blatantly abusive or anything it was just their attitude.

I think what the girls mostly learned was that adults were mean hard@sses, cussing is good, and they learned the coping methods of the other girls. So a girl might not be a cutter when she came to the place but she would be by the time she left.

Now not all places are like that, and getting professional help should be a good idea as a general rule but you can't account for who will be doing the helping so you better make sure the person really needs the help before risking making them worse off than they were before.

I've seen people helped by going to counseling and I've seen people get far worse by getting help. It's so hard to determine how things will end up.

I can't really say too much more without going into some specifics that I just don't want to go into, but I do know what I'm talking about here. You have to be very careful when you're dealing with the sanity of others.

[Dr. Purple Goddess]

there's no doubt if she's still being abused she should have professional help. I wasn't getting the impression that she's still in immediate danger or at least in an abusive situation. But if she were, I'd say tjs' advice is completely right. The proper authorities need to be told and she should be placed in a safe environment. If there's relatives that qualify, than that may be the best place for her while she seeks out-patient therapy or whatever it is that would be best for her after being evaluated.

the mental health system isn't perfect. And child protective services is much worse. But, these are our programs set in place to help. If we don't like them how they are, there need to be changes implimented. Easy as pie of course! *sarcasm*

[Charisma69]

drfeigypants said:

there's no doubt if she's still being abused she should have professional help. I wasn't getting the impression that she's still in immediate danger or at least in an abusive situation. But if she were, I'd say tjs' advice is completely right. The proper authorities need to be told and she should be placed in a safe environment. If there's relatives that qualify, than that may be the best place for her while she seeks out-patient therapy or whatever it is that would be best for her after being evaluated.

the mental health system isn't perfect. And child protective services is much worse. But, these are our programs set in place to help. If we don't like them how they are, there need to be changes implimented. Easy as pie of course! *sarcasm*

Yeah, easy as pie. Not so much. Don't we wish it really was though? I mean when people go to get help they should really be getting help and not playing Russian Roulette.

But Feigy is totally right if your friend is still in immediate danger she should get help right away. Especially if it's a relative that's doing the abusing. That is the kind of thing that needs to be taken care of right away since you can't just get away from them easily.

See this is why it's always good to get advice from several sources and research a bit on your own because there is no easy answer and everyone's situation is so very different.

[tjaman]

I was just posting from my own decades-old guilt about my agreement at the time to not "tell" anyone. I was this 15-year-old boy carrying around all the emotional crap that a 15-year-old boy has going on in his head all the time anyway along with this horrifying information about a girl who's been sexually abused by her stepfather every day, just about, since she was 5.

That's just a really, really bad situation. First, you don't know what to do except "be there" for her, which means, essentially, you've become her emotional tampon -- she can unload all she wants on you and you've essentially agreed to let her. And you can't talk to anyone because you've promised.

Meanwhile, she's dating people in their 30s and acting out in other ways and you've agreed to shut up about it. Your friends and you are dealing with it in the only way you know how by making fun of her behind her back (let me promise you how hard it was to forgive myself about that part of it, but try to remember I was a damn' child and entirely un-equipped to carry a secret like that around for the two years that I did).

Meanwhile we're at a Christian school. Everyone on staff is more qualified to help her than me and my chuckleheaded idiot friends and when she finally did talk to someone, a huge weight was lifted from us as well.

I didn't mean to suggest anyone needed to be locked up. Just ... in my situation, the girl's mom really stepped up for her and her stepfather was put away and she was able to get some actual counseling about what happened to her. The only reason she ultimately talked to someone was because the guy started abusing her younger half-sister and she had to put a stop to it.

That's not gonna be universal. Sometimes things end up going really badly and I recognize that.

I'm only talking about me and my situation. With me, and in my situation, I wish I'd listened to my heart and ... been that second voice.

Again, just my $.02.