|
Post by GreatMuppetyNick on Mar 29, 2006 22:15:00 GMT -5
Author: BiteMe
I realize we already have an episode of the week thread, but some of us have already discussed the beginning episodes to death. This thread is a coninuation of the thread of the same name from the tvtome board. Every Tuesday a new episode will be introduced for discussion. We left off over there on "The Dark Age" so we can do that until Tuesday and then move on to "What's My Line, Part I."
I'll post my thoughts a little later. Got some stuff to do.
|
|
|
Post by GreatMuppetyNick on Mar 29, 2006 22:16:08 GMT -5
Author: PilotWash
"The Dark Age"
I liked this episode episode, mainly because it gave us some background on Giles. Before this point, all we knew about him, was that he was a British Librarian who was Buffy's watcher. Okay I maybe exaggerating, but you get my point. I was surprised that Giles had a darkside. We had some evidence of this in "Halloween" when Ethan called him Ripper.
I enjoyed the part that Giles rebelled against his destiny of a watcher, by turning to the dark magics. The monster in the story wasn't important in my opinion, he was a metaphor of Giles's past that he is trying to hide. This was one of the first episodes that we see Giles treating Buffy as a daughter that he never had. We all knew from "Prophesy Girl" that Giles cared for Buffy. I am glad to see the Buffy and Giles now have something in common, that they have to face their destinies. This makes Buffy understand Giles much, much better.
I understand why Jenny got freaked out by Giles's past, but seriously what person hasn't messed with the powers of darkness in their past. Okay, bad attempt at humor there. It seems the writers will stop at nothing to keep Giles and Jenny apart, which does totally stink, but I see those two crazy kids making up and making out in the future.
I thought it was hilarious to see Willow take control in the library, shutting up the bickering Xander and Cordelia. I think this is a sign for the future that Willow is going to be a fine leader. I also noticed that Xander and Cordy have some romantic heat between them, I wonder what this will lead to.
I noticed that the majority of the four major Scoobies had a foil for them at their level.
Buffy had Faith, both are Slayers Willow had Amy, both are witches. And Giles had Ethan, both are watchers.
I got to say that I like Ethan, he is so good at being evil. His and Giles interaction throught the first 4 seasons is delightful. He is a good foil for Giles. I thought he would have brought a lot to the table in the later seasons of Buffy, as a bigger foil to the Scoobies.
I give this episode a crazygolfa ranking of a birdie, which means it is very good.
|
|
|
Post by GreatMuppetyNick on Mar 29, 2006 22:17:17 GMT -5
Author: AuntArlene
I've always liked the episodes where Willow takes charge.
I don't remember Ethan as a watcher, but then again I have a habit of forgetting these details.
|
|
|
Post by GreatMuppetyNick on Mar 29, 2006 22:18:10 GMT -5
Author: SomeWeirdKookyGuy
This is basically a repost of my thought over at tvtome
Surprise (1)
I like this episode, but for the life of me, I can't figure out why. I have a feeling that it might be because I know what's coming is the next part, since most of this episode is really just build-up for the next. There was some interesting revelations, ie. Jenny not really who she says she is, and some nice twist. I really thought Jenny was going to do something to Buffy when she offered to drive her to Giles.
And then of course, there was all that sappy-saccharinely-sweet Buffy-Angel angst( Oh man, am I gonna get a lotta flak for that remark), which I thought was over-done.
Thoughts
- Buffy's Slayer Dreams. I've read that,apparently, the plate falling to pieces symbolizes the ending of Buffy and Angel's relationship. And if you listen hard enough, when Angel is staked in the first dream, he mouths the words, "my soul"
- "Carpe Diem" I just love this reference to the very first episode of the series. For those of you that didn't remember, Buffy said this to Willow in regards to dating, and that didn't end well. What are the chances of history repeating itself?
- Oz Let me just say that at this point in the series, there's no one cooler than Oz. His asking Willow out just sparkled with wit and coolness. And anyone that the good taste to woo Willow is an okay person in my book
- I know it's very early in the series, but for some reason, SMG's baby fat just stuck out for me this episode. Anyone else?
- Claddagh Ring Many fans are gonna reference this and gush about how romatic it all was, but, I still think that scene was slightly over the top. Seriously.
- "Do it again. Do it again" Heh, Dru was just delightful to watch in this episode.
I give this a 7 out of 10. Like I said, I like it, but I still can't figure out why. It WAS an enjoyable watch.
|
|
|
Post by GreatMuppetyNick on Mar 29, 2006 22:19:31 GMT -5
Author: PilotWash
Brilliant Insights NS, but we are way behind on this thread, so we are discussing the Dark Age right now. Would you post your brilliant insights about that episode instead. We tried to keep up, but failed miserably.
|
|
|
Post by GreatMuppetyNick on Mar 29, 2006 22:21:56 GMT -5
Author: SameKookyGuy
Thanks, CG. I'll do another cut and paste then
The Dark Age
What would you do if the person you trusted the most, the one that you could always count on, suddenly breakdown? Would you be in denial (like Willow was), or would you try to laugh it off (Xander), or would you take charge(Buffy)?
It comes as no surprise to anyone that Giles has been playing the father figure, not only to Buffy, but to the whole gang. He was the Father that was there for Buffy, the Father that cared for Willow, and the Father that wasn't drunk for Xander. And now, we finally find out his dark secret that has been hinted previously in "Halloween". And frankly, I'm disappointed 'cause I expected something darker. Oh well.
What wasn't disappointing was how the gang (particularly Buffy and Willow) stood up to the task of taking over Giles' duty. Buffy, as ever, became the protector and the guide, and Willow became the planner and the leader or sorts.
This was/is Giles' Episode, and aside from the lame revelations (Sorry, but the demon summoning past didn't strike a note with me), it was good. We saw how the gang reacted, and we saw the consequences of it. (Jenny and Giles are officially on a break). Tony Head was superb in this Ep, giving us stuttering Giles, Annoyed Giles, broken down Giles, and especially the revisit to Ripper. ("Why did he call him Ripper?" "Oooh...")
8 out of 10, for great character episode
|
|
|
Post by GreatMuppetyNick on Mar 29, 2006 22:23:08 GMT -5
Author: BiteMe
It must be Tuesday...
I know I've been bad about keeping this thread up to date, but I'm actually gonna try to keep up from now on. The new episode up for discussion this week is "Surprise." I promise I'll write a review in the next couple days.
On your marks...Get set...Discuss!
|
|
|
Post by GreatMuppetyNick on Mar 29, 2006 22:24:12 GMT -5
Author: Tjaman
There's a weird math thing brewing in this board. By the time I'm ready to discuss the episodes you guys are talking about now, they will have vanished into the hinterlands of this thread, and I fear my comments will seem, I dunno, like interruptions of your current discussions.
This isn't a huge problem, and if you're okay with it so am I. But if episodes had their own threads for discussion (like is happening with S1 out there), it might be easier to keep the episode discussions near one another.
I'm just throwing it out there as a suggestion. If you want to keep it all in one thread, that is your call.
|
|
|
Post by GreatMuppetyNick on Mar 29, 2006 22:25:31 GMT -5
Author: PilotWash
Well, we like to keep it in one board, just to make it easier to find. And we should be on "Surprise". You can still discuss episodes that have already been discussed in the thread, but not episodes in the future. So if we are discussing "Surprise", you can discuss, "Bad Eggs" but not "Innocence". And we are skipping weeks to catchup to the "It must be Tuesday" on the Buffy forums.`
|
|
|
Post by GreatMuppetyNick on Mar 29, 2006 22:30:30 GMT -5
Author: BiteMe
Okay, so I totally lied and have been way too busy to watch any Buffy lately. Apparently nobody else feels like doing reviews either, since nobody posted anything.
Author: Me
Well, I did post my thoughts on "Surprise" up there if anyone wants to comment on it ...
Author: PilotWash
Where is the insightfuly goodness, especially you NS, why are you slacking on us.
Since we are so off, lets start back on "The Pack" or "Angel", I get those two confused in which order they are in. So we dont need extra threads.
Author: Moi
Where is the insightfuly goodness, especially you NS, why are you slacking on us.
Moi? Would you believe writer's block? And It was getting kinda lonely at the Tome where I used to post since NatashaS disappeared. I must say, Cordy's Closet is very large.
Since we are so off, lets start back on "The Pack" or "Angel", I get those two confused in which order they are in. So we dont need extra threads. Hmmm. The Pack brings back a lot of memories. Let me dig up my S1 DVDs and see if I can find any shred of inspiration left.
Author: PilotWash
Okay, I expect a review of the Pack in this thread one week from today. Capiche?
Author: Myself
LOL. But no pressure, right.
|
|
|
Post by GreatMuppetyNick on Mar 29, 2006 22:31:37 GMT -5
Author: WesleyStalkerFan
It must be Tuesday, so ...
Angel
What is a soul, exactly? What does it mean, when a person loses his or her soul? Check the web, and you'd be bombarded by thousands upon thousands of defination for a soul. It's no surprise that this is one of the most debated topic among the fandom.
So, where to begin? The formal defination states that a soul is "the immaterial part of a person; the actuating cause of an individual life". Aristotle states that the soul is "the perfect expression or realization of a natural body". Some religions consider it the "essence of a being", and others consider it as "an envelope for the spirit, as the body is the envelope for the soul". And there are many more such differing definations.
Angel makes it sound a lot simpler for us; to him, a soul is something that governs our conscience and guilt. Without it, there's nothing to keep us in check. Nothing to tell us that hitting someone is wrong, that killing someone is even worse. Well, nothing but the law, that is, but this a TV show so that doesn't count.
In this episode, we find out that Angel was a vampire, and one of the worst of their kind. He killed and maimed in Europe for over a hundred years, which only ended when the Gypsies restored his soul to him. And it isn't all "moonbeams and pennywhistle" either, to quote Spike, and it's not meant to. The Gypsies did it not to help him, but for vengeance
Naturally, the ramifications of his actions for all those times comes crashing down to him. If you've ever felt guilty doing something wrong (lying, cheating, etc.) how does it feel when you've destroyed hundreds of lives? Any normal person would've gone mad, and perhaps he did, for a while. Some might become dead inside. Others even stay away from the rest of humanity. And Angel did all that, and only decided to help when Buffy turned up. Something about her must be really motivating to guys with tons of guilt.
It's of interest to note that Angel never really started doing good for the sake of good till much later in the series. We find out later that he's been doing it for Buffy all along. I wonder if the people who condemn Spike for doing good only for Buffy thought of this.
Thoughts
- For a loser(supposedly), Xander is a lot braver than me. For example, I would never do what did: just dance up (badly) to a girl.
- Ahh, the infamous uninvited vampire hand in the house scene. Another one of Season 1's irregularities. Of course, it could be fan-wanked to say the The Three were special types of vampires whose hands were immune to the invitation clause. Maybe that's why the Master sent them.
- And speaking of the Three, how lame were they? I mean, greaves? Why not breastplates, since that makes more sense? Ugh.
- Buffy's reason for Angel being in the house was really lame. There's no way Joyce really believed her, or did she? I wonder if some of the excuses I gave to my parents last time were ever that lame.
- Giles know-it-all secret is revealed. Willow: How is it you always know this stuff? You always know what's going on. I never know what's going on. Giles: Well, you weren't here from midnight until six researching it. Willow: No, I was sleeping.
- The part where Buffy thought Angel read her diary, although very old-school, was funny. And wouldn't Alex or Andy or Adam or any other thousands of names that begin with the letter 'A' be better than 'Achmed'. Buffy really can't lie that well.
- Kissing Buffy made him put on his vamp face. Weird how that never happens again later in the series. He must've gotten used to it by then.
- I never knew polka dot dresses were even "in".
- Note this line: "I haven't fed on a living human being since that day.". He never said anything recently-dead human beings. Those are fair game.
- Darla need to take shooting lessons from Wes, her aim is INCREDIBLY bad.
- I just love the song they played at the last scene; "I'll Remember You" by Sophie Zelmani. Very lovely and poignant tune, and very reminiscent of Jewel.
Fearing retribution, I give this a 5 out of 10. It suffers the same problem as most of the Season1 episodes, and while this is a pivotal episode in the 'verse lore, it still feels disjointed when compared to the lores established later. It doesn't help that David Boreanaz still haven't wowed me yet with his acting skills (maybe he hasn't mastered his brooding skills) or that Darla is still feeling to throwaway for me. They both fare much better in Angel, but you wouldn't know it from watching this ep.
|
|
|
Post by GreatMuppetyNick on Mar 29, 2006 22:37:23 GMT -5
Author: Charisma69
Very nice insights NickSeng. ;D
I just have one comment:
It wasn't kissing Buffy that made him go all vamp face. It was her cross necklace that made him go vamp face. If you notice it burns him when it touches him and that makes him go all vamp face.
Author: NickSeng
Thanks!
It was her cross necklace that made him go vamp face.
Possibly, though from what I saw, there's very little chance for the cross to have touched Angel both times when they kissed.
Author: Tjaman
Later in the series, her cross burns into him while they're kissing and he doesn't vamp out.
I got the sense that he accidentally nipped her, drew a little blood and vamped out, but I could be mistaken (need to rewatch the eppy before I can really comment).
Some stuff happens for the purposes of plot development. I believe Angel vamped out when Cordy handed him a handful of rosaries when she's an amnesiac and it freaks her out. Just sayin'.
|
|
|
Post by GreatMuppetyNick on Mar 29, 2006 22:38:42 GMT -5
Author: Nick
I Robot, You Jane
When the internet was open for a public use, no one could really predict the way it has permeated our everyday lives, how electronic communities have sprung up from everywhere, connecting people previously separated by geography. Information that used to be hard to find can now be brought up by a snap of a finger (or more accurately, by a click of a mouse, and some taps to the keyboard). The internet is now so entrenched into our lives that we'd be lost without it, much like we are without electricity.
But while all that sounds very nice, the internet also brought with a host of problems. Viruses are easier than ever to transmit, ignorant people are being duped and cheated every day, and most abhorent of all, is that people are finding easier and easier to give in to their baser nature without being constraint by society.
One of the drawing features of the internet is the near total anonymity of it all. In one way, this is a good thing, since that it allows for us to communicate with each other without bringing any prejudice or preconceptions into it. In another way, this anonymity also allows people to say things they won't normally say, to be rude, to outright lie, abominable spelling etc. In short, everything that most culture taught us is wrong, but embolden by the fact they cannot be caught. You don't have to believe me, just check ANY chat rooms.
So, what does all this have to do with this week's Buffy? Well, this episode really emphasizes the importance of the 'net and how much power someone with total control of it would have. It emphasizes with the fact that not everything on the 'net can be believed out of hand, and how much must be taken with a grain of salt. And most of all, it tells us not to rely too much on it, because a demon might invariably gain control of it and control you with promises of love and power.
Thoughts
- I really hate when TV/Movies deals with computers. It always grossly exagerated and inaccurate. Buffy is no exception. While some of the screens look plausible, nobody, and I mean nobody types in a chat room and talks out loud, unless you want everyone to know what you're talking about. And the computer-y voice is just so fake. For one thing, I doubt that technology existed then for a school(1997), or that it can pronounce the nuances of a word so well. And lastly, you don't turn off you computer by turning off the screen.
- The makeup for the demon Moloch in the teaser is exceptionally well made, especially for a Season 1 episode. Too bad they replaced it with the cheesy and campy demon robot. El Diablo Robotico?
- Did anyone flash to Illona Costa Bianchi when you heard the Italian lines?
- You SO know that Giles and Jenny are going to get it on. They just sparked with chemistry. "Giles: I'll, uh, I'll be back in the middle ages. (starts up the stairs) Ms. Calendar: Did you ever leave?"
"Giles: Well, I-I don't dangle a corkscrew from my ear. Ms. Calendar: (mischievously) That's not where I dangle it."
- Catch the picture of Willow and Giles on the door of Willow's locker. Apparently she has a crush on Giles, which is confirmed in Season 4's Where the Wild Things Are.
- Xander's kinda jealous, isn't he? He never seems to approve of anyone dating "his" girls. Except Riley. Huh. (NOTE: this has since been refuted by Kev. Bummer. )
- Paranoia is apparently fun.
- "I'm jacked in". Ugh. Camp to the max.
- Following somebody in dark gl@sses and a trenchcoat in BROAD DAYLIGHT is a really, really bad idea.
- "To read makes our speaking English good." Cl@ssic Xander line.
- Willow's Whackus Interruptus. Malcolm! *whack* Remember me, your girlfriend?!*whack* Well, I think it's time we break up! *whack* Or maybe we can still be friends! I heart the beep out of her.
- I agree with Giles. As much as I love my computer, it will never replace the feeling of settling down to read a good book.
- "Buffy: Let's face it, none of us are ever gonna have a happy, normal relationship." And how. If only they knew.
This episode is much better than I remembered it, which isn't saying a lot. I still hate fake technology they used, but I guess the whole episode isn't as bad as I think. I give this a 5 out of 10.
|
|
|
Post by GreatMuppetyNick on Mar 29, 2006 22:43:10 GMT -5
Author: Kev
What about Tara? I dont think he minded Willow dating Tara. And Oz? He actually became friends with Oz after he got over his protective phase.
Author:Nick
Yeah, I forgot about Tara.
But, regarding Oz, remember Phases where he was all bad-mouthing Oz while making out with Cordy. That was a great scene.
Now that I think about it, he never really had much problem with Kennedy either, did he.
Well, so much for that theory.
Author: Kev
Yeah, he didnt like Oz at first, but then warmed up to Oz, and they became friends. Heck, they were even closer after the Willow/Xander kissage.
|
|
|
Post by GreatMuppetyNick on Mar 29, 2006 22:49:11 GMT -5
Author: Nick
I've been meaning to post this last week, but things just got a bit crazy with work and the tome closing and the flurry of thread saving, that I didn't get the time to really sit down and put down my thoughts. Anyway ...
The Puppet Show
-- from "Wikipedia" Does any of that sound familiar? The Puppet show is a example of a cl@ssic genre (in this case, a Whodunit) given the Buffy twist. In our scenario, the mystery is the identity of a demon, the suspects are a ventroloquist, his dummy, the new principal and Cordy. Our semi-professional detective is a Slayer, the Watson role is a watcher, and the lesbian sleuth with a complicated love life is a teenage hacker who later becomes said lesbian sleuth. Thoughts
- Cordy singing. She should do a duet with Angel on American Idol. I wonder what Simon will say.
- Ah, the first appearance of mein fuhrer, Snyder. Evil, evil little man who I suspect was born out of the need for another suspect to throw us off.
- Giles: A demon is a creature of evil, pure and very simple. Wow, the show sure has gotten far from it's early days, hasn't it?
- Isn't it weird that Morgan is taking killing Buffy so hard is he believes that she's a demon? And how Sid is making it so hard for Morgan to blend in. I know most of it is to make us suspect the dummy, but a lot of it seems be done is spite of characterization.
- Sid and Buffy sharing a moment on the ultimate destinies. Very touching scene, and then Sid delightfully undercuts it.
- The Usual Suspects reference, which is kinda appropriate, considering it's one of the better Whodunits around.
- The chances of anyone picking a numnber at random, and have it's square root is very small, especially if the number is very large. For Xander to be able to pick that number, he either had to know the answer, or he was really lucky.
- Snyder: I don't get it. What is it? Avant-garde? The expression on his face is just priceless.
- The dramatic reading of Oedipus. Everytime I watch that, I still burst out laughing. One of the funniest scenes in the series.
- Does anyone ever wonder if this was ever the predecessor for Smile Time?
A surprisingly good episode in a season of mediocrity. Very well done Whodunit and large with the funny too. This episode also marks the turning point of the season, since every episode that follows it are of much better than the earlier episodes. A 7 out of 10.
|
|