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Post by tjaman on May 29, 2006 16:58:07 GMT -5
Can I start out by saying I'm sorry for my part in any of this?
I know that I have a different faith, belief and understanding of Scripture than other people do.
My experience of Scripture upsets other people.
But when asked, I will share that experience of Scripture.
We should be able to share our differing views without it devolving into personal attacks.
And I'm sorry, but the hair on the back of my neck goes up when I'm told I'm not believing something "correctly."
I'm interested in reading how others respond to Scripture.
I'm not interested in convincing anyone my way is the only way to respond to Scripture.
I do feel attacked on occasion. I feel like I'm being told my faith is inadequate. I do try to refrain from attacking others. If anyone has felt attacked by me, I apologize.
The personal attacks are bad. They may also be unavoidable. These are deeply held beliefs, deeply personal, and it's hard to dispute them without it feeling like one's entire faith is being attacked.
I can understand Reb and Bango -- everyone, really -- disagreeing with my point of view. I disagree with others.
The shame of it is that we can't seem to just disagree with one another. Someone's always got to be right. Someone's always got to prevail.
Which is the kind of spiritual arrogance that really turns people off from these conversations.
So ...
... I don't really have a solution. I recognize I'm not in a good position to propose one. All I can give is an overview of what I see happening here, and welcome any suggestions anyone may have.
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Post by Rebelman on Jun 6, 2006 11:37:40 GMT -5
I am not to blame this time and nobody should throw it. But take into account I am not going to be called what Feigy called me and just blow it off. I will defend myself.
I am still awaiting Py to start up a new topic of some kind. For some reason my life seems to come into these situations. I don't mind that if people love talking about it. I can talk about it if people want.
Py whenever you are ready start something new on here.
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Post by Dr. Purple Goddess on Jun 6, 2006 11:49:54 GMT -5
I am not to blame this time and nobody should throw it. But take into account I am not going to be called what Feigy called me and just blow it off. I will defend myself.
I am still awaiting Py to start up a new topic of some kind. For some reason my life seems to come into these situations. I don't mind that if people love talking about it. I can talk about it if people want.
Py whenever you are ready start something new on here.
I didn't call you anything so there's nothing to blow off. But no one is blaming you for the way things went in here either. So just be patient, Py will get round to this when he isn't swamped with work and real life.
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Post by Charisma69 on Jun 8, 2006 0:38:55 GMT -5
Okay, until Py gets back to us I thought I'd post some handy ground rules for the discussion. These are actually from a mental health help site but I think they'd apply here.
The Rules of Engagement Play fair ... for yourself and others.
Part of supporting others is necessarily being willing to call them on their "stuff." That's not to say we should go sniffing it out like a hound-dog, mind you, nor to only do this, but to be willing to do it and at least explore what jumps out at you. Doing so is uncomfortable and it is imperative practice for us to learn to confront difficult things without disproportionate, personalizing anger without 'walking on eggshells. Many of us wouldn't be in quite the place we are now or have been in the past if we had a more balanced skill-set for dealing with conflict. This is a really good place to get better at it. The "rules" below are questions we ask that you keep in mind before "calling" someone on their "stuff." They are not hard-and-fast requirements but they should be incorporated into the general code of conduct at the board, and ideally, in life.
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Am I doing this only because of my feelings?
"I don't like this person"
"This community doesn't feel the same to me anymore."
"That idea or statement reminds me of someone who hurt me before."
This is not a good enough reason to speak up. Your problem with their stuff is your problem and you would be better served to spend a lot of time and then a lot more time thinking about why you allow this to get to you.
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Do I care about this person/these people?
By this we mean either "knowing" that person individually as someone you have shared much with and care about their welfare OR simply feeling a strong sense of helping the group you care about avoid a dangerous pitfall.
If your answer is no, if your primary feeling is irritation rather than concern, you're not the one to get into it. Let someone else speak up ... someone who won't let their own feelings get in the way of communicating effectively.
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Am I willing to stay with the dialogue regardless of the difficulty of it?
Hit-and-run is not effective communication. If we say something challenging, we need to be willing to accept the challenges that come right back to us and dignify the people we're talking to with the respect of dialogue.
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Am I in a frame of mind to be conscious of how my words will be heard?
Of course we cannot take responsibility for whatever anyone may project onto our statements. We can, however, be attentive to likely assumptions and work on our language to try to mitigate that as well as be willing to take ownership of any unclear language or mistaken assumptions of our own. Sometimes we need to wait and go back and craft our words carefully.
If we have already begun with the understanding that we truly care - and aren't just pissed off - we should be able to communicate that. We can be effectively direct and challenging without attacking.
Many of us went for many years without models of how to do that, but even so, it's possible! Really! We wouldn't lie to ya!
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Do I spend more time pointing out other people's issues than just giving empathy?
If so, it may be that you are just cranky. If it comes to that, do yourself a favor and take a little break from the community or other places that tend to agitate your latent crankiness.
Beyond some of those questions, we encourage anyone who engage' in potentially conflictual discussions/challenges/assertions to use specifics. Just the same, anyone who challenges the initial challenge would be better served to use specifics in their response.
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Finally, lets try to give each other the benefit of the doubt. For all the drama some of us have seen here (and elsewhere) over the months and years, we would have to admit that relatively few people post anything with malicious intent. It might help to start with the premise that, agreement or not with the point, the vast majority of people we interact with mean well.
Roz © 2003 - 2005
Copyright © by BPDRecovery.com All Right Reserved.
This doesn't completely fit the topic of discussion but I thought it would be a handy read for people to keep in mind before getting their feelings hurt about stuff.
It can't hurt, right?
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Post by quantumcat on Jun 8, 2006 1:18:27 GMT -5
That makes entirely too much sense.
It reminds me of another set of questions.
(I think they relate to gossip.)
Before you speak,ask:
Is it necessary? Is it true? Is it kind?
It's way too easy to make a response out of a knee jerk reaction or because it would strike a nerve so exquisitely.
We can manage to say/do/think the wrong thing a lot easier than we can hit things right and it's a heck of a lot simpler to hurt someone than it is to heal the damage.
Making things a wee bit clinical might be just what we need to be a little more reminiscent of "Meeting of Minds" and avoid simulating a bad parody of A.M. radio talk shows.
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Post by tjaman on Jun 8, 2006 7:24:08 GMT -5
And beyond how well said that was ...
* rubs eyes * Did I just see a Cordy post?
Where you been, grrl? ;D
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Post by PyleansDontLeaveMe on Jun 14, 2006 9:45:14 GMT -5
Whew. Apparently I should remember to tidily lock this thread when I'm away for long periods.... And did I turn the oven off...?
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Post by tjaman on Jun 14, 2006 10:48:05 GMT -5
It's PY! ;D
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Post by PyleansDontLeaveMe on Jun 14, 2006 10:59:37 GMT -5
Guilty as charged
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Post by Aunt Arlene on Jun 14, 2006 17:48:42 GMT -5
Whew. Apparently I should remember to tidily lock this thread when I'm away for long periods.... And did I turn the oven off...?
* sees Py opening the now smoking oven *
* sees Py take out what looks like the remains of a very well done roast *
Py! Don't touch it! It's EVIL!
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Post by GreatMuppetyNick on Jun 14, 2006 21:02:54 GMT -5
Evil Roast? I could do with a bit of that.
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Post by tjaman on Jun 19, 2006 12:31:33 GMT -5
And at this rate we should get to Ecclesiastes by about the fall of 2009.
No rush.
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Post by quantumcat on Jun 19, 2006 13:28:11 GMT -5
To everything there is a season and a time for every purpose under Heaven.[/b][/size]
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