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Post by tjaman on Jan 8, 2007 15:09:47 GMT -5
Eeeeeexcelleeeeeeeent.
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Post by PyleansDontLeaveMe on Jan 9, 2007 10:38:20 GMT -5
So, does anybody have any feedback on The RUnaway Bride? For those of you who have so far been lucky enough to see it? I ... sadly... have not.
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Post by tjaman on Jan 9, 2007 10:39:54 GMT -5
It's fabulous!
And you will, you will ...
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Post by PyleansDontLeaveMe on Jan 9, 2007 10:48:48 GMT -5
I wasn't fishing, I promise I'm just interested in how people felt about it. Did it hold up to The Christmas Invasion?
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Post by Insane Troll Logic on Jan 9, 2007 11:28:21 GMT -5
I prefer the Christmas Invasion.
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Post by tjaman on Jan 9, 2007 11:38:07 GMT -5
This one was quite a bit more camp. But in that TCI introduced us to a brand new (and also incredibly cool) Doctor, it had some mighty big shoes to fill.
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Post by PyleansDontLeaveMe on Jan 19, 2007 13:35:31 GMT -5
Py runs in nekkid... feels awkward in front of Billie Piper, and heads sheepishly back to Lornes of London to get his clothes...
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Post by quantumcat on Jan 19, 2007 14:03:26 GMT -5
Py,that guy from Torchwood is looking for you....
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Post by PyleansDontLeaveMe on Feb 6, 2007 14:37:32 GMT -5
So I've spent some time today writing my review of Season 2 of Dr. Who. I think it's fairly spoiler-lite, I apologize if I've let something slip....
here it is.
Fun and Games after the Funeral A review of Season 2 (new series)
There’s a number of things that I’m tired of hearing about the second series of New Who because, valid as it is for everyone to have their own personal opinion about the episodes in question, there’s quite frankly a lot of commentary out there that either A: Seems to be based on a dislike for the fundamental message of the stories which frames the argument as “I don’t like the message ‘don’t-stick-a-fork-in-a-toaster’, therefore any program exploring non-fork-in-toaster-sticking-issues is bad and poorly made and everyone involved in making such a thing are bad people” or B: It’s not exactly the same as the old series and yet had some elements that were similar to the old series which only points out to me how it’s not exactly like the old series and therefore it’s bad because the inclusion of similar elements MUST mean that they were trying to make it exactly like the old series and failed. (I’m thinking specifically of the discussion in some quarters of how Tooth and Claw had a few similarities with Talons and yet somehow failed to be an exact remake of Talons, or Impossible Planet/Satan pit had a bit of a Pyramids of Mars-y feel about it but somehow failed to be exactly like Pyramids of Mars so therefore, bad.)
And of course there’s a disturbing third frequent viewpoint expressed about the episodes which is mostly summed up by “I’m really, really smart because I can see that this is all terrible and everyone who doesn’t agree with my completely subjective opinion clearly has ’Single digit IQs’”. Followed by a particularly distasteful implication that anyone who likes the new series performs certain kneeling-related services for Russell T. Davies. Although not as distasteful as the implication made from the same quarters at one stage that only straight people are capable of having committed relationships.
Not that I’m saying that season 2 (new series measurement) was perfect. There’s been quite a bit of perfectly valid criticism about various elements of the series that makes some valid points about various missteps and missed opportunities along the way. I’m thinking in particular here about Mike Morris’ Lament over Army of Ghosts/Doomsday which makes a few points I don’t entirely agree with, but overall makes its case extremely well and is, refreshingly, based not on subjective response to the episodes but on objective principles of dramatic structure and theme. And overall, it’s hard to disagree with the overall points made there. And that’s just one example. There are many other equally valid negative reviews of the series to be found.
The thing about most of the comment on series two (new series measurement) that gets me however is that there really is a clear umbrella theme to be found here and yet it gets consistently missed. Certainly there were cases where the theme was put forward awkwardly, or in some case just flat out poorly. There were cases where the theme shot itself in the foot for a variety of reasons and was presented as something ugly and elitist. There were cases where the pursuit of the theme overwhelmed cohesive storytelling. And there was at least one case where the theme just presented itself too late in the episode, too quickly, and thus became a hallmark commercial in which the Doctor gives Rose a new refrigerator with a Big Red Bow. All of this is true. But nonetheless, I really think (In my subjective opinion) that any discussion of Season Two (NSM) has to be based on the acknowledgement that the umbrella theme of the series was rooted in one thing.
Wonder.
To describe what I mean, we have to take a quick glance back at Series One (NSM). There the theme was clearly along the lines of Battle not with Monsters. The Doctor, having committed what appears to have been a fairly significant… well… one hates to use the phrase ‘War Atrocity’… Let’s just say that, for the best of motivations, the Doctor has committed what might look to the casual observer like double genocide. When we first see him in Rose he’s closed off emotionally, roaming around fighting monsters in a fairly businesslike and emotionless way. The first series was in equal parts about him coming to terms with what he’s done and figuring out what exactly his way forward is. Is he a man who does what has to be done, regardless? Does he believe that the ends justify the means now? Which is why I believe so many people miss the point of series one and complain that the Doctor spends half the episode building a machine that he never bothers to use and that Rose saves him in a great big Deus Ex Machina (literally). Both of those things were exactly the point. The Doctor spends half the episode preparing to commit genocide AGAIN. And not just of the Daleks but quite possibly the human race in the bargain. And then he looks the Dalek Emperor in the eye, sees that by continuing to fight monsters while closing himself off emotionally he’s very nearly become exactly the monster he’s been fighting against, and chooses to die a good man rather than live as a monster. And immediately on the coattails of that Rose arrives and saves him, just as she’s done metaphorically over the series, specifically because it was Rose that showed him how to feel again- the very ability that prevented him from taking that final step into monsterhood. So… she saves him, he saves her, the ‘heart of the TARDIS hangs around clearly to be a metaphor for the rebirth of the soul given from her to him, the old man dies and in a nicely Buddhist moment the new man is born only to find to his delight that he has never existed, or words to that effect.
Of course, one of our complaints at the time was that nobody seemed to be having much fun, that they never went to amazing alien worlds, and that there was too much hanging around Earth. ‘Everything has its time and everything dies’ is a worthy sentiment to explore, but let’s be honest- it can be kind of a downer to watch somebody really process that.
So. We enter season two (nsm) and with its proliferation of Zombies it repeatedly bangs over the head with life after death discussion. Specifically, finding the joy and wonder in the world around you after you get through your old issues and are spiritually reborn to see the world anew.
Season two was, as far as I can see, SUPPOSED to be about finding the fun again. Going out and looking at things as if for the first time and taking the time to appreciate how amazing the universe around us really can be.
Like I said, I think that that was supposed to be the idea. Unfortunately, the execution frequently hosed up what, at its base, was a very nice idea.
First we had New Earth, which with its earnest whirlwind of fun and amazing ideas simultaneously sets up a ‘well, now you’re dead. What are you going to do with the rest of your life?’ thing by setting itself 15 years after the End of the World on a whole reborn new World and aims for a breathless air of ‘look at all this Cool and Amazing Stuff!’ Rose flat out says ‘I love traveling with you’ which I suspect was supposed to be a mission statement about really exploring the joy in the universe but unfortunately came off as a lovey-dovey teen romance moment. I suspect it would have read better if the Doctor’s line about ‘That was our first date’ had been replaced with something about there being so many things in the universe to see. But that’s just a personal opinion. In any case, New Earth’s intentions are good, but ultimately it does itself few favors with its pace. We’re given a million and one amazing things, cat nuns! body swapping! elevator shaft action!, etc!, which I like to think was meant to carry a tone of ‘look how many amazing things there are!’ but unfortunately it also made the story feel crowded, with too many ideas competing for space. And without the setup of Rose and the Doctor just really enjoying traveling (as opposed to enjoying each other) reading properly it feels like a lack of focus instead of a whirlwind of joy.
And then we had Tooth and Claw (which I should say I like quite a bit, despite what I’m about to say about it.) Apparently this was originally described to Phil Collinson (who, judging by the MP3 commentaries, seems to be an absolutely lovely man) as “Queen Victoria, A Werewolf, and Kung-Fu Monks!” So clearly, it seems to me, the idea again was to show wonder and fun and just a lot of cool things that would be neat to see. So far, so valid. And this seems to be the page that The Doctor and Rose are working from throughout the episode. They’re clearly just traveling around having a fantastic time and finding everything they encounter terrifically funny. Not really unlike Tom and Lalla, except in one key aspect which I’ll get to in a moment here. The problem the theme of finding Joy in the Universe has here is that the story itself really really calls for a very different tone. It continues the ‘After the Funeral’ theme set up in New Earth by showing Queen Victoria after the loss of Albert. The ultimate problem being that Victoria, after the loss of Albert, is in no way going to be a figurehead for ‘finding the fun’ The episode really calls for a tone of somber respect for what the Queen is going through. And I even think that it’s possible that The Doctor and Rose could have shown her that while still showing themselves to be enjoying their travels and reveling in the wonder of it all. It would have been a tricky but fascinating balance. Instead we get one of the endemic problems of the season. Everyone else is behaving very somberly, going through difficult times and having their spouses ripped to pieces by werewolves. They’re all taking the situation seriously and showing Victoria the respect and grieving woman should be given. But the Doctor and Rose are still operating on their remit of having an absolutely fabulous time rediscovering the joy of the universe which, when it’s put smack up against Victoria’s grief in the same scene makes them frankly look like a couple of self-obsessed pricks. For God’s sake, the woman’s grieving. Maybe it’s time, out of respect, to give up on your Fun Little Game of trying to bait her into spouting a catchphrase, yeah? Tom and Lalla, for as much as they were enjoying every second of their travels (which is the real feeling that this season was trying to evoke, as far as I can see) would never EVER have displayed this level of insensitivity toward the feelings of the people they encountered.
So, competing thematic material which doesn’t mesh together terrifically well would be my summation of that situation. Still lots of good stuff to be had, but tonally the Doctor and Rose come across as unlikable, which is a pretty big problem. It’s at this point actually that we as a people began to believe that the whole season was going to be about Rose and The Doctor getting too big for their britches and getting a holy heck of a smack down from the universe. Because, frankly, there seemed at the time to be no other explanation for their complete disregard for the feelings of people around them.
In School Reunion the After the Funeral aspect was Sarah Jane herself. After her time with the Doctor, this is what happened. Her life went on, and she found a way to continue. The only thing that was really keeping her from finding her joy after that time of her life was done was the lack of proper closure, which she finally got here. Rose and The Doctor are still for the most part in ‘Gosh Wow Isn’t Everything AMAZING?’ mode, but it works here for two reasons. First, they aren’t in direct contrast to the tone of everything else in the episode, and second because both of them let the fun stop at key moments to show the very real sadness and fear that can exist just underneath. The Doctor is experiencing his time with Rose with joy despite the fact that underneath it he knows it’s going to end. Rose comes to understand that she can do the same with the Doctor, despite the fact that she has to accept that one day he will leave her and move on. Which makes they’re ability to enjoy the wonder around them a bit more noble and almost heroic, in a way. They’re appreciating today because they know that one day they won’t have a tomorrow. That this might be all they get. There’s something nice about that. It gives some validity to their determination to enjoy their time together.
I want to come back to The Girl in the Fireplace in a moment.
The Rise of the Cybermen/Age of Steel the opposite card is played. The Doctor looks at the alternate world and sees only danger. In contrast, Mickey looks at it and sees wonder. So it’s no surprise that at the end of the day it’s Mickey who’s really grown over the course of the two-parter. In contrast, the script completely ignores the joy and wonder aspect for Rose, instead putting her back into Season One ‘I miss my daddy’ mode. Because we had thematically dealt with his loss already, and because we completely ignore the season’s theme of what it means to appreciate how wonderful the world really is, we’re left with Rose not being able to grasp that these people aren’t her parents. Which just makes her look stupid. Obviously, looking at it realistically, if this were real of course you’d still want to connect with your parents, parallel or not, but what’s good realistically and what’s good dramatically are very different things. These episodes are guilty of looking at Rose through the Season One theme and ignoring the Season Two theme, which cripples its ability to really resonate as part of a greater whole.
Idiot’s Lantern has the same problem as Tooth and Claw. The Doctor and Rose continue to have a wonderful time enjoying things long after they should have noticed that everyone around them is actually having a pretty crappy time. And as a result the accusation that Rose and the Doctor come across as smug, self righteous bullies is perfectly valid. At a moment when they could have been a breath of fresh air for what’s-his-name-you-know-the-kid by showing him how bullies are best just ignored they instead embrace the idea that you beat bullies by being a bigger bully, which is exactly the sort of thing that the end of Season One was about not doing.
Impossible Planet/Satan Pit is about the Doctor encountering things he doesn’t believe in, giving the old ‘More things in heaven and Earth than are found etc. etc.’ aspect to the Wonder thing. In fact, The Doctor explicitly states that this is why he travels. To be amazed by things he didn’t think could exist. Which is a wonderful summation of what the entire season intended to be about. Unfortunately it’s undercut completely by the fact that they stay bogged down by the completely mundane aspects of their situation, so that instead of two solid episodes of the Doctor and Rose being absolutely Blown Away by the sheer enormity of all the impossible things they see, instead we get them moping a bit about being stuck there, a discussion of mortgages (and I can tell you – I work at a mortgage company. There is no more mundane topic than mortgages.) and then everything resolved far too easily. The TARDIS should only have been returned after a lengthy internal battle on the Doctor’s part along the lines of ‘These things can’t exist. This can’t be happening. This doesn’t fit into my view of the word. Oh my God… this is exactly why I travel, isn’t it… There IS so much more than I know about. And maybe… just maybe… I don’t know yet what is and isn’t possible…’ at which point, after resolving his internal dilemma, he’s thematically rewarded with the return of his freedom. They could even have kept the (somewhat predictable) ‘find the TARDIS in the big hole’ plot point because in this case what would be important is the Doctor’s emotional journey to understanding that enjoying the wonder of the universe doesn’t just mean wandering around smiling at things, but is actually rooted in having your preconceptions challenged and changed.’ As it is, the emotional journey is ‘Oh no, we’re trapped. How sad. Hey look, the Devil! Oh, and the TARDIS. Thank God. I guess the universe is a pretty big place, isn’t it?’ Which is… less satisfying.
I’ll come back to Love and Monsters as well.
Fear Her makes the mistake of leaving the sense of wonder too late, instead focusing on some neat crayon drawing effects and a little girl who’s just not quite charismatic enough to carry as much of the episode as she needed to be able to do. As a result the sense of wonder is relocated to the last few minutes with a thoroughly cheesy ‘Doctor runs the Olympic Torch, isn’t it breathtaking?’ moment which even the Hallmark corporation might have had serious thoughts about using.
And Army of Ghosts/Doomsday… well… there’s very little I can say about it that isn’t either spoiler protected or said earlier and better in Mike Morris’ lament, which I mentioned earlier. Suffice it to say that the sense of wonder came at the expense of plot, making it less satisfying. I like it. I don’t think it’s a harbinger of the imminent destruction of storytelling, but I concede Mike’s points about plot vs. spectacle.
I love Girl in the Fireplace and Love and Monsters. They’re hands down my favorite episodes of this season by at least three or four country miles. And it’s because each of them is a perfect use of the theme of Wonder, in different ways.
One review declares that the only theme in GitF is that a woman can get quite far on her back. Now, leaving aside the disturbingly sexist undertone there, here’s why I disagree- Gir in the Fireplace is, beginning to end, about encountering amazing things. Mickey’s overjoyed to have gotten a spaceship on the first go! Pre-Revolutionary France is on a spaceship! And so is a horse! The Doctor is amazed to discover girls! (that last one comes from Stephen Moffat in the mp3 commentary track as his stated view of the episode.)
Yes, ‘that’ scene is unfortunately played as drunk, instead of as ‘The Doctor has just had the most amazing night of his life’ (again, S. Moffet- mp3 commentary track), which makes it seem silly instead of a moment of reveling in just how great life is. But the whole thing is summed up by Reinette really. The Doctor is worth the monsters. And one may suffer a world of demons for the sake of an Angel. What she’s really saying, thematically, is that opening your eyes to really look at the world around you is inevitably going to result in your seeing some truly terrible, horrible things. But the wonderful things that you’ll also see make it worth doing. And that’s Girl in the Fireplace in a nutshell. And I love it.
As far as Love and Monsters goes, there’s one criticism frequently leveled at it that’s completely unfair. A lot of people have criticized it for not including the Doctor and Rose nearly enough.
As has been noted in plenty of different sources, Love and Monsters exists because the crew had to make 14 episodes in a 13 episode schedule due to The Christmas Invasion. As a result, one story needed to be made that only featured The Doctor and Rose peripherally, and to a very limited degree. And so they designed a story in which the Doctor and Rose only appeared peripherally, and to a very limited degree. Criticizing it for that is basically the same as criticizing the latest episode of Heroes for not having enough Doctor and Rose in it. Of course it doesn’t. It never planned on doing so. (As a side note however, hasn’t Christopher Eccleston been fantastic on that show? Sorry. Not relevant to the topic at hand.)
Love and Monsters has what is currently my favorite moment in the entire history of Doctor Who (Old Series Measurement and New). And that is Elton’s final speech. Which sums up both the episode and the goal for Season Two in a nutshell. There’s so much more. It’s so much madder. It’s so much BETTER. You just have to take the time to look.
So yes, the Absorbaloff is a bit silly. The Doctor/Rose/Monster chase is a bit silly (although it could be argued that this is a perfectly valid way to show the events since what we’re actually seeing is what the Doctor and Rose’s adventures look like to Elton, not how they actually are.) And yes, I admit- I don’t think I would have included the line about having a sex life with a paving stone. But I still love it because it goes for the basic concept of realizing that the world is both a terrible and a wonderful place and worth being a part of. And it goes for it with teeth.
And so that’s my personal, subjective view of Season Two (NSM). It was a good theme, and it deserved its time to be explored. Unfortunately undone in many case by too much plot, too little plot, incompatible moods, or being left too late in the episode or forgotten altogether. But if you look it was always there, whether or not it was allowed to flourish. And from it we got two nearly perfect episodic expressions of how the world is worth living in, regardless of the monsters or the flaws.
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Post by Insane Troll Logic on Feb 6, 2007 15:08:51 GMT -5
Nicely done! For me, "Love and monsters" didn't have quite the same impact - but for one reason alone. The Abzorbaloff. It was designed by a clild to win a competition, and it shows. Oh, how it shows. The concept of the episode is totally wonderful - I LOVE that the Doctor and Rose are in the periphery - I always like that "show it from a different perpective" thing (same reason I love "The Zeppo", really). And if it wasn't for The Abzorbaloff being TOO cheesy (yes, it is possible to be too cheesy on this show! lol), it could have approached perfection. All IMO, of course.
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Post by PyleansDontLeaveMe on Feb 6, 2007 15:15:23 GMT -5
See, for me my sheer love of that final 'The world's so much better' speech totally forgives all other issues for this episode. Well.. .that and the way that Elton remembers their ELO cover band playing perfectly when we heard them playing earlier and they were actually kind of terrible. I love that detail.
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Post by tjaman on Feb 6, 2007 16:54:16 GMT -5
* stops slurping Py for a moment *
Hey, that's not fair. I love most everything about your reviews, and this one reminded me a lot about what I loved about the series.
It's ran smack into what happens with a lot of reviewers who aren't as good as you -- and honestly, I haven't tried to review "Who" even once, preferring to discuss it in general themes.
But you've identified a central theme -- admittedly a good one -- and then measured each episode against how well it met the criteria you've identified. And one of the best things about a Py review is that the themes you identify tend to be completely valid. Analyzing S4 from a perspective of parenting, for instance, is at least as valid as my taking it on through the Jasmine Watch filter, but I'd suggest both approaches are better than choosing to analyze it from the perspective of Charisma Carpenter's hair at any given time.
In this case, the theme of wonder serves your analysis brilliantly for your two favorite episodes -- TGIF and L&M -- but where the storylines stray from the theme you have less to say about them.
And like I said, completely valid -- your statue is never in any serious danger. But in those cases where the storyline is stubbornly doing what the writers and the actors cheekily decided it should, my advice would be to follow it, rather than to -- well, for lack of a better word, harrumph at it for wandering off.
I think you're open to that. I got the sense that there was some time-compression involved in this certainly respectable omnibus entry. And I'm much with the love. I think Tennant's first installment was spectacular and personally, my take on "Love & Monsters" is that the story of Dr. Who touches lives outside the little blue box in ways we never really explore and this episode was a fantastic opportunity to do so. It even had a certain amount of resonance with "Everything Changes" from the Torchverse and "Rose" from Season One.
Is it better than yours? Not hardly. Is it more developed than yours? Certainly not. It does, however, exist independently from any unilaterally applied expectations and seems more open to discovery of resonanceseseseseses with other teleWhovian storytelling.
Along with being a damn' sight more positive than most people's reactions to L&M, which I've felt personally have been unnecessarily negative.
But mad applause for the effort. I enjoyed reliving these stories through your eyes and just because it needs to be said in every possible space it can be brought up, ASH kicked ass!!! ;D
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Post by PyleansDontLeaveMe on Feb 6, 2007 17:13:24 GMT -5
Oh, I completely agree that the storyline should take precedence in where its going to go. There's just been a lot of incidents lately on the Doctor Who Ratings Guide of taking shots at series 2 as being kind of all over the place and as a result kind of crap.
Whereas I really do think that they were trying for a coherent theme in the whole 'wonder' area, regardless of how well it worked in the individual stories.
I do actually like New Earth a hell of a lot. I actually adore all of Season 2 (except for Fear Her.... I try... god knows I try to love Fear Her.... I just.... OK, It's boring. There, I said it.
I think the whole review came about because I was starting to feel defensive about the sheer amount of mean spirited and completely baseless reviews that Love and Monsters has been getting on the DWRG. Girl in the Fireplace as well, actually. And you're very right about L&M being about the way the Doc and co. peripherally affect the lives of people they never even meet. And it's about not fitting in. And it's about the people who get left behind to pick up the pieces. It's just a happy accident that all of those things are themes that really resonate with me, and therefore I absolutely love it to pieces. And so I felt the need to defend in in the larger context of the series as a whole.
Rereading, I sound much more critical of Impossible Planet/The Satan Pit than I actually am as well, I notice. I do actually enjoy what it is very much. But it's frustratingly close to being something even better
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Post by PyleansDontLeaveMe on Feb 6, 2007 17:18:29 GMT -5
Oh, and there are definitely other themes that you could use as a filter to examine the series. I picked the Wonder theme because it had the most examples of being well realized and being poorly realized. Plus, like you say, it forms the backbone of the two episodes that I really really love.
Certainly, in the grand scheme of things, the theme of wonder doesn't have a hell of a lot to do with the cybermen two parter. Nor Idiot's Lantern, really. I felt it was worth mentioning there because it is one of the examples in the series where the Doctor/Rose relationship came off as smug and irritating- though in fairness that has little to do with them experiencing wonder and much more to do with them responding to a big bully by being even bigger bullies instead of taking a higher road.
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Post by tjaman on Feb 6, 2007 17:52:17 GMT -5
But also completely in character. The Doctor has always been willing to take on a prat of any stripe, which is part of his charm. I've seen not nearly enough of Troughton's arc, but that seemed to be a driving force with him. Knowing everyone who's been the Doctor since Hartnell, some of his mannerisms and reactions seem ... very odd.
It's all Tom Baker's fault for just expansively inhabiting the character in every conceivable way. When other personalities manifest in the Doctor -- all of which hark back to something or other at this point -- people are so quick to say "That's un-Doctor-like!"
To these people, I say:
;D
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