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Post by Rebelman on May 16, 2006 14:05:03 GMT -5
I don't know of the literal mention but it is lay on in the Old Testament. I'll point if out if I see it written down for you.
The serpent was cunning yes. He was full of pride and wants to be like God therefore deceives who God loves most. His creation. That would be a direct blow to the LORD's heart. But continued to love anyway despite some flaws. See how we do the same thing right now. I can love over flaws. You can love over flaws, the LORD loved over flaws after that.
The serpent (evil) can't control us. But he can over nice suggestion that is sin. That is what he does now. He is still very much present in every ones life. Trying to give the LORD good reason to hate us.
If the LORD didn't literally tell us how we got here then we'd be asking a whole lot of questions of how we got here and how we sinned in the first place. See what I mean?
He wants to show us how sovereign He is, how powerful He is, how creative He is. And how much He loved His creation
And how the Holy part of us behaves like God. We love, so does He, We help, so does He. See what I mean? The sin part comes from satan because he does a mighty good job of twisting things to make them soun fetching. Buts its a big lie.
Like I love Py and I hope does he. And I'll help Py and hope does he. See we represent God right here in the flesh. When Jesus came that was the literal flesh of God. Now we have a role model to look up to
Am I making sense?
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Post by PyleansDontLeaveMe on May 16, 2006 14:15:34 GMT -5
Yeah, I understand what you're saying. And I think we're on the same page with the purpose of this chapter being split evenly between answering questions that we're going ot inevitably ask about where we come from, and even moreso - demonstrating god's sovereignty as comprehensively as possible.
But more than that, I think it kind of exists as an object lesson that we're always given a choice. That at no point was the intention that we should be mindless followers but that god very much wants us to come to him by our own choosing.
Reb also said -
"The serpent was cunning yes. He was full of pride and wants to be like God therefore deceives who God loves most. His creation. That would be a direct blow to the LORD's heart. But continued to love anyway despite some flaws."
I really like this read on the situation, actually. I'm wondering if it's your own interpretation, or if there's biblical precedant for reading it that way? If so, could you site the verse for me?
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Post by Rebelman on May 16, 2006 14:26:43 GMT -5
Yeah, I understand what you're saying. And I think we're on the same page with the purpose of this chapter being split evenly between answering questions that we're going ot inevitably ask about where we come from, and even moreso - demonstrating god's sovereignty as comprehensively as possible. But more than that, I think it kind of exists as an object lesson that we're always given a choice. That at no point was the intention that we should be mindless followers but that god very much wants us to come to him by our own choosing. Reb also said - "The serpent was cunning yes. He was full of pride and wants to be like God therefore deceives who God loves most. His creation. That would be a direct blow to the LORD's heart. But continued to love anyway despite some flaws." I really like this read on the situation, actually. I'm wondering if it's your own interpretation, or if there's biblical precedant for reading it that way? If so, could you site the verse for me? We have free will. He never intended to make us blindly do anything. We choose to follow or disobey. He gave us the option to be with Him or Not. That is complete free will. The only thing that isn't free is when I follower has a predetermined will. For example when you are saved a follower has a will set up by God to set out and He helps me follow it. Its part of how He wants to bless and love.
What I meant by my quote ther is shown all through the Word. I just summed it up. You see the original sin was pride. Even wanted to be like God. Therefore trying to be more than she was. Thats pride.
We can tell by the LORD's reaction that He was deeply hurt right there in that situation. Then He gave them clothes to wear since they now felt shame for their naked bodies. Thats showing His mercy and compassion despite being deeply hurt. We do this all the time in our lives. See how we represent God in a way through love?
He never intended to just let us loose and never love us. The LORD loves His creation quite a bit. That is why He wants to be in our lives. Because He loves us. You see when we love someone. How do we operate? We want to comfort (The LORD did that), we want to love them (The LORD did that), we want a great plan for their lives (The LORD does that). See how much the LORD loves us despite doing something to deeply hurt Him. Its hard to imagine but God has emotions as well. Thats why we were created in His Image.
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Post by Bango on May 16, 2006 14:53:28 GMT -5
If God created all of this. And therefore God created the serpent... then didn't God technically create sin? Hang on, I'm looking up the passage right now... Not really. You have to apply free will into this sort of thinking. God created Satan, a cherub who had a high order. He wanted to be like God and sit in God's throne. He believed that, therefore creating sin,(after all Satan is 'The Father of Lies'). Doing that made him an enemy to God, so God ejected him to the earth. He was 'so cunning' and smart, he, some says enchanted a serpent to speak to Eve and tempt her, making her believe she could be like a god. The same with Adam. Through their free will they brought sin into the world. And now I'm kind of musing on authorial intent. Specifically, If God wrote the bible word for word as it exists now, why is he telling us this story? Is it just a 'Look how good you could have had it, but no, you had to go and mess it up?' I think it was so that people can see how it all began. How the world started, and importantly, how sin came into the world. But more importantly, that God declares redemption from sin even from the start of the fall.
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Post by PyleansDontLeaveMe on May 16, 2006 14:56:08 GMT -5
Bango said - "He was 'so cunning' and smart, he, some says enchanted a serpent to speak to Eve and tempt her, making her believe she could be like a god. The same with Adam. Through their free will they brought sin into the world."
But again, is this your interpretation of the passage or is there a scriptual source for this reading?
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Post by Bango on May 16, 2006 14:56:29 GMT -5
Overall, I believe the Lord only gives to you that you may comprehend. "HOW the Lord created" is never further discussed as I recall and (correct me if Im wrong here) because It's more the WHY that is the central foundation for the scriptures. IMO I agree!
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Post by PyleansDontLeaveMe on May 16, 2006 14:57:30 GMT -5
Yeah, I have to say if there's one statement in this thread so far that everyone can get behind, that would be the one.
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Post by Bango on May 16, 2006 15:01:00 GMT -5
But again, is this your interpretation of the passage or is there a scriptual source for this reading? There's a literal passage, I just thought you didn't want cross-referencing in this thread. I'll give it, if you don't mind?
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Post by tjaman on May 16, 2006 15:10:57 GMT -5
Well, it's a direct and fair and honest question.
I know I wouldn't mind seeing it myself ...
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Post by PyleansDontLeaveMe on May 16, 2006 15:15:31 GMT -5
But again, is this your interpretation of the passage or is there a scriptual source for this reading? There's a literal passage, I just thought you didn't want cross-referencing in this thread. I'll give it, if you don't mind? Yeah, that would be great. I know at one point I did say that I didn't want us to do a lot of referencing to things that we hadn't discussed yet, but I was clearly high when I said that. Let's just try to keep it to a minimum, and please explain your reference if it's something that needs more explanation. cool.
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Post by Rebelman on May 16, 2006 15:31:17 GMT -5
What are we looking for now? Are we moving on to something else already?
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Post by PyleansDontLeaveMe on May 16, 2006 15:34:07 GMT -5
No, No. Bango was explaining the serpents motivation, and I asked if he was referencing a specific biblical passage or if that was his personal tak on Genesis 3:1 and he said he thought we weren't supposed to cite portions of the bible that we hadn't discussed yet, and then I said I was an idiot for ever making that rule, and that I'd be very interested to know what passage he's citing in that interpretation. whew.
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Post by tjaman on May 16, 2006 15:47:19 GMT -5
Not an idiot, exactly.
Just clearly high.
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Post by Rebelman on May 16, 2006 15:50:30 GMT -5
No, No. Bango was explaining the serpents motivation, and I asked if he was referencing a specific biblical passage or if that was his personal tak on Genesis 3:1 and he said he thought we weren't supposed to cite portions of the bible that we hadn't discussed yet, and then I said I was an idiot for ever making that rule, and that I'd be very interested to know what passage he's citing in that interpretation. whew. Alrighty, I'll wait on that because it will take me forever to find something in the Old Testament. I'll try looking for things up tonight unless you want to fire me up now
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Post by PyleansDontLeaveMe on May 16, 2006 15:55:54 GMT -5
Not an idiot, exactly.
Just clearly high. Hey man, dope is for dopes! Reb, I think Bango had a specific passage in mind that he was going to look up for us, but I'm not 100% sure
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