Bush Bugs Me

[quantumcat]

I think there are some points being overlooked.

I heard no mention of the alternatives to petroleum
that are at hand right now,would create new jobs and
world decrease the chokehold the petroleum barons
have on those who have the fewest options.

(Not to mention us!)

When folks are worried about survival,the guy who knows how to use a plowshare
beats the heck out of the guy who only knows how to handle a sword any day.

We can approach our enemies from a greater position of strength if it's obvious
they have nothing we want.

We aren't afraid of them.

We don't hate the people they *claim* to represent for racial or ideological reasons.

We reveal the enemy for who he is and strip away his false defenses.

We don't NEED a war to make ourselves look good,bolster our resources at others' expense
or any other spurious reasons.

We can make it evident that we're too strong to go spoiling for a fight and strong enough
to help anyone that could use a friend.

As for the borders,we'd look a lot smarter if we didn't encourage illegal immigration even as we claim to
thwart it.

We let our big businesses use illegals as slave labor and as a weapon against legal,homegrown workers without
their worrying one iota about consequences.

(You think the proposed legislation is going to hit Tyson and Wal-Mart where they live? Not until it's gone after
all the churches,medical clinics and shelters first.)

We subsidize the growth of excess produce which we dump on Mexico.

This lowers the price Mexican farmers can get for what they grow.

They come over here to make a living.

If,for instance,Bush encouraged the use of corn for fuel,plastics,etc.
bamboo for paper,furniture,building materials,etc.,hemp for paper and clothing,then
there would be less corn for livestock feed and human consumption.

This would raise the price of corn for local farmers and reduce the need for petroleum
based fertilizers,excessive irrigation,pesticides and agricultural subsidies.

This would create a higher demand for local produce in Mexico and a greater incentive
to keep skilled farmers on their side of the fence.

Trying to make things more equitable for potential immigrants in their native lands would
be cheaper and more humane than trying to deal with criminal and military problems.

Yes,we need to 'speak softly and carry a big stick' but we need to employ an even bigger carrot.

That carrot (along with Latin raised jakon,shade-grown coffee, and other renewable sources of
nutrition,medicine and shelter ) can make our land,our people and our international relationships
healthier with LESS drain on our planet and our economy than we have now.

Instead of dismissing gentle solutions that would actually require some thought and effort on the
part of citizens,we ought to increase our application of positive,pro-active,constructive answers
and be thrifty with tactics that demand destruction and manipulation.

As I've said before,you can beat disease and pests one of two ways.

You can try to eradicate any sign of the blight you see-even if you have to take out the wholesome with it.

Or you can build up the good till there's no place for anything else to take hold.

A bare or sickly environment welcomes malignant forces to take over-whether it be a body,a plot of land,
a soul or a society.

Nourish it and fill it with all that is wholesome and it can withstand whatever storms or pestilence come its way.

We need to check our toolsheds and medicine cabinents and see if we are as well stocked with seeds and vitamins
as we are with herbicides and opiates.

[tjaman]

* votes Q! for Secretary-General of the United Nations *

* changes vote *

* votes for her for President *

[Rebelman]

Very interesting points you mentioned Miss Quantum Lady.

He did not give an alternative to oil because he said people have been trying to do that since the 60's. Someone who was alive during the 60's can tell me if they were doing hydrogen ideas back then.

He said there will never be any of that because all industry is too Oil based. He said the environmental democratics need to have their buts shut up so we can drill in the Atlantic and the North point of Alaska for oil. He said oil has been found in Parts of Eastern Asia, Middle East of course, Parts of Africa. Northern coastline of South America and wrapping around to the US up through Texas. He pointed out that is is all in an oil belt so there should be an entire belt of oil in the Atlantic ocean since it has a general wrap around the country that is pretty even but nobody is allowing it and China has financed Cuba to drill off the coast of Florida since the environment folks don't want to hurt sea creatures. So in summation, there will be no other sources for oil but oil will always be used. That is what he said.

Regarding immigration pointing out that yes you are right we are allowing them to take up the labor. The labor many Americans refuse becaues it wont' pay. Then we have them come here illegally and make money, which I might add won't pay any taxes. Guess who will? We will. We say "give us 8 dollars an hour for that job" then the illegal comes and says "we'll do it for 5 dollars an hour" then who is going to get picked? Of course the cheaper wage worker will get it and there goes an American job to someone who won't even put it back into the capatalist society.

From what I see, I don't think any one can deny that illegal immigration is out of control and we basically let it happen. Thinking the situation will fix itself and it has gotten worse. My history professor pointed out similar to what I said above and the fact that the President doesn't want a homefront war of road side bombings taking place here. That would be kind of scary watching bombs and wars on the next city over from you.

I honestly feel that situation is going to get worse. We aren't shutting the boarder off but allowing lax laws to keep them coming. And they bring illegal drugs and everything along with them. Its like a 3rd world country taking over a Superpower. One side you see skyscrapers and the other side of the line you see little Pedro in no shoes playing with rocks. Thats a bit of a leap. Do yall believe it is because of their Feudalistic society Spain set up there originally?

That is very similar to where I live. We don't have as much industry as the North because we stayed sort of fuedal. That is why we have these pretty big homes of marvalous structure to show we are special.

I am not sure of an other alternative than to make Iran stop their nonsense. They certainly have intentions to conquor and not be peaceful. There really is no such thing as a peaceful nation.

And to what Nick said, I have no idea if that is a rule for professors. This one swears, cusses, yells and screams so he is very well laid out as someone who wouldn't care anyway.

[TheMasterGeek]

I had eight History classes in college with 5 different teachers, and only one professor I could tell where he was on the political spectrum. He was the advisor of the College Republicans at my school, but he never brought his beliefs into the classroom. The other four professors, I could not get a read of their political beliefs.

I believe a teacher/professor does not have the right to spew their beliefs in a classtime during a time of learning, but during an assembly or a press conference outside of class, they have all the right to say their beliefs.

[tjaman]

So it's the American worker's fault for demanding a living wage?

Wild.

[Rebelman]

Many teachers will dispute what you said Kevin.

My communications teacher I had last fall said she was a dictator and the students have no rights. She threw a student from the class because she disputed a grade.

And TJ, yes that is a weird way to put that but if you demand more than what someone wants to give you. Then your fired. But if the mexicans come and want less who will get a job? There is no way a boss is going to pay for a high priced american when they can give it to a cheaper illegal. But of course we started all this by not doing anything to begin with.

[tjaman]

I seem to remember we did do something in the 1920s to secure the rights of American workers, and that some people lost their lives doing it.

* wonders if we need to do it again *

[quantumcat]

The problem we have now is that while today's workers are
waiting for Lefty and Joe Hill,the bosses are moving to East
Outer Slobbovia with all the work.

They aren't worried about the government or unions enforcing laws
that would insure that all workers employed in or by this country would
be paid a living wage,work sane hours,work in a safe environment,have
reasonable benefits,etc.

They want people who will work off the books,under the table for whatever
they can get and who won't even think of health care plans,pensions,workers'
compensation,OSHA requirements,etc.etc.

So we have folks with no Social Security,no payroll savings plans,no retirement fund
(not even one that wound up providing the silk for some felon's golden parachute) and
no certainty that they'll have a job when they show up for work.

(But they'll get called back for a rehire after their "lay-off" when they're needed to do the
labor-but now they're back on 'temp' status.)

Big business blackmails countries like ours into ignoring them lest they move their operations
to countries that don't even claim to treat their people correctly.

After all,it's not like we could confiscate their money and property in this country and lock their
greedy backsides in jail.

Nor do they expect the people of this nation to boycott their businesses in favor of the little guy
who has to charge more for goods and services because he *does* use quality materials,pays
for the designs he uses,has a safe working environment,pays his workers something they can support a family on
and has to pay more for his inventory than the big guys sell theirs for.

Sure your family farmer has better tasting fruit with fewer pesticides and better bio-diversity than the big agri-business
guy but the big dude's produce is cheaper (thanks to government underwriting) and prettier (thanks to its 'commercially' oriented genes)
so the small grower is disappearing as fast as the hardy,nutricious heirloom veggies he used to sell.

The less ethical businesses (think they might have a hand in dope and gun-running,too?) continue their com-shuk n' jive while the consumer
and the regular guy trying to make a living deal with the results.

The folks we put in charge respond by telling us that the problems don't exist,are somebody else's fault and none of our suggestions are feasible anyway (unless one of their people says the same thing.).

If we have to face some hard truths and work to make things happen the right way,let's share some accountability with the people perpetuating the problem.

Maybe instead of having the zillionaires over as guests at the Govenor's weekend retreat,we put them up at taxpayer's expense for 25 or 30 years.

BTW,teachers,students and faculty can have all the agenda they want-just keep it out in the open and insist that students get input from all sides.

You can't know how wrong the other guy is if you never hear what he has to say.

[quantumcat]

Thanks tj,for the vote of confidence.



We had one member of our family run for the White House and it
made him seem so wrung out and boring (think pre-hunky Wesley)
that we were glad when he went back to being a regular person.

His blood pressure,cholesterol and blood sugar drop about 75 points
when he's out of politics and his I.Q. shoots up accordingly.

I'm nowhere near as clever or virtuous as Al and there's no way I'm
going to put up with idiots and girdles-not even for my country.

(Sure that Wolfram & Hart aren't the only ones with PACs,though...)

[tjaman]

* changes vote again and votes for Q! for Boss of Us *

[quantumcat]

I can't be all 3?

[tjaman]

I only have one vote.

[quantumcat]

Move to Florida.

There the zombies can vote ,too.

Early and often!

[Rebelman]

I saw some points of interest you just pointed out that stuck out to me directly.

You mentioned small farmers not being around anymore. That is absolutely true. That is because of the big business owners aquiring little by little the small guys to make one big guy. This is how industrialization got off to a good point in US History. We became the inovators of foreign cosumer investment which shocked us past Britain as the largest industrial nation in only a 25 year period of time. Now I want yall to look around? Do you see anyone working in factories and mills to earn a living? I don't think so. In Ga the mills have basically shut down. Nobody wants to work that kind of life which is a reason for immigration. The immigrants were the Proletariats in Amerca. Someone who in generations works there for the rest of their life. We don't like doing one thing for the rest of our life but the immigrants would and that made us wealthy off of that.

In a similar sense, the except this time not legal but illegal the illlegals are taking the jobs we either despise or don't want to work the rest of our lives and acquire them. It does not require brains to do this. All you got to do to come here is get a Tourist Visa from Mexico and here you are. I don't even know why they are jumping across the boarder when you can proudly walk in illegally and stay.

As Quantumcat pointed out the Government thinks this will disappear. Its not going to but it will get worse. I honestly stand on the fact that the federal government needs a states rights downsizement. This was how it was before the Civil War and up till the 1960's there was no states rights period. Now the Federal govt makes the rules. That limits the peoples ability to have a voice regardless of who has the majority in any situation.

We probably won't ever have other alternatives for oil. I don't see it happening myself. Too expensive and the public dont care anyway. Hydrogen is explodable more than oil. The sun goes down at night, and electricity can only give so much power. Basically a few new refineries need to be put in place so we can cheapen our oil otherwise we will get higher and higher and as always its the Presidents fault (as many love to blame for some apparent reason). But in this case it is the environmentalists fault. They won't let the people make the refineres to cheapen our oil supply. We arent even dependant on the middle east like some claim. Only 10-12 % isnt a dependancy.

Here is an idea. They want to shut us off we can shut their food supply off. We would really insert ourselves to people overpricing if we wanted to. We control 40% of the food supply and we are the Superpower yet we downside ourselves and have expensive oil. We could fix it with refinerys but nobody is making them anymore.

[tjaman]

I don't necessarily agree, but I don't have the energy to argue it, either. Well spoken, tho, Reb.