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Post by Aunt Arlene on Oct 12, 2004 20:05:22 GMT -5
Death please. No, wait! Cake! I meant cake. You said death first. Well, all right. We're going to run out of cake at this rate. All sorts of wonderful postings on religion and I choose to respond to "cake or death". I'm just that deep.
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Post by grailwolf on Oct 12, 2004 20:11:52 GMT -5
The altruism thing is something I've thought about a lot. I believe totally in the idea of hedonism. I think that a sane and healthy person gains more joy from being good to others than they gain from harming others. Not to mention, the potential punishments for doing "bad" things are decidedly unpleasant and would be avoided by a sane, healthy hedonist.
What's more, if we could manage to adopt this philosophy and someone in our midst feels differently (enjoys hurting people for example) we can look at them compassionately and try to determine what is wrong with them (psychological scars, chemical disorders, etc) and seek a cure rather than branding them as "evil."
I would actually go so far as to define good and evil as "makes me happy" and "makes me unhappy" respectively. That which makes me happy is good in my eyes, and that which makes me unhappy is evil. If what makes me happy makes you unhappy, then we need to determine a compromise. Either that or we need to talk about degrees. If what makes me very happy makes you slightly annoyed, then maybe you can go somewhere else or I can so that you won't be bothered.
Along similar lines, I feel that laws against anything that does not harm another or another's property are ludicrous. Drug use, prostitution, gambling (as examples) are all totally victimless crimes. If you get doped up and try to drive, or you spread venereal diseases, or you steal money for your gambling (or your drugs) then these are real crimes and should be punished. However, if you want to shoot up in your living room with something you paid for with your own money, then I have no problem with that. Let me rephrase... I have a problem with it in that it makes me unhappy to see people hurt themselves, but I see no reason to make it illegal.
A good example of the silliness of "morality" laws: You can meet a woman at a bar, offer to buy her dinner, take her to a play, and give her a piece of jewelry if she will come home and sleep with you. This is totally legal. Offering the cash equivalent is not. WTF?
I guess my personal ethics could be considered "live and let live." And I seem to have strayed somewhat from my original topic. Ordinarily I would edit this post to make it flow more naturally from topic to topic, but dinner is on the table so make of it what you will. I might post more about this later.
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Post by Disgruntled Gremlin on Oct 12, 2004 22:13:33 GMT -5
I understand what you're saying, but I disagree with a couple of things. In principle, sure, it works, but there is some logic (as insane and troll-like as you may call it).
Prostitution- I believe that'd be to try to prevent young people from being manipulated, ultimately leading them into the drug trade and selling their bodies. It's actually quite a vicious cycle- and one that few young people manage to escape from. Although it certainly hasn't prevented unsavory people from running such heinous operations, it does...discourage it? Boy, that sounded more powerful in my head. Anyway, I think any measures taken to keep girls from such horrible fates is a good thing. And it's not like you can't find services...
Gambling- Slot machine/lottery/craps/other addictions are real diseases- in theory, the lower the availability, the lower the chances of people with these disorders being exposed. I don't have anything against gambling, but I think it sort of works to an extent...I'm undecided on this account, because in my life, it really doesn't apply much (therefore, no time to think a strong opinion through).
Drug Use- Let's face it- a lot of things are in fact bad for your body. I'm personally for the legalization of marijuana. Half the kids at my school have tried, and not one has ever faced any penalty whatsoever. I mean, if you want pot here, walk into an Earth Science class, and although smoking it is bad for ya, there aren't any major side effects from, say, some party brownies for most people. However, some, more addictive substances... I'd say any way to keep the life-ruin-ing drugs like crack is a good thing- my cousin is a social services worker, and she sees some seriously messed up people- people whose lives have been destroyed because of these things. So, I'm all for this.
Not that that was in any way relevent. I just like to babble. Crap, I think I've killed the thread...so I'd better follow up with a religious question...
What's your take on this 'eternal damnation' thing. What EXACTLY happens down in hell (aside from the fire, brimstone and Hillary Duff concerts)?
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Post by Bango on Oct 12, 2004 22:40:01 GMT -5
I'm personally for the legalization of marijuana. Half the kids at my school have tried, and not one has ever faced any penalty whatsoever. I mean, if you want pot here, walk into an Earth Science class, and although smoking it is bad for ya, there aren't any major side effects from, say, some party brownies for most people. [glow=blue,2,300]You are aware the reason why it can become legal is because it is used medically for sick patients who need it for medication...any other use can still land you in a jail cell...[/glow] [glow=blue,2,300]Hey, lay off Hillary Duff...you don't see many people willing to go to hell just to promo their new album. ;D No, seriously, she's a good person, why rag? *psst, feel free to rag on Lindsey Lohan all you like...just don't drag Avril into it ;D*[/glow]
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Post by Disgruntled Gremlin on Oct 12, 2004 22:48:53 GMT -5
(shakes head at the Avril reference) Um, I hate to mention it to you, but the stoners at my school aren't getting their marijuana to treat arthritis...
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Post by Bango on Oct 12, 2004 22:56:52 GMT -5
(shakes head at the Avril reference) [glow=blue,2,300]And what's that supposed to mean?[/glow] [glow=blue,2,300]DUH! ;D[/glow]
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Post by Disgruntled Gremlin on Oct 12, 2004 23:18:52 GMT -5
What I was trying to say was that it's easy to get- just about everyone does it- and 95% of 'em are going to turn out just fine. As for what YOU were trying to say, either explain further or call a translator.
As for the Duffster, Doctor Feigy Pants, I think ya need to prescribe this fella a joke.
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Post by IllyriaWorshipper on Oct 13, 2004 1:47:57 GMT -5
For some weird reason, Hillary Duff reminds me of Mercedes McNab. Maybe its the cheeks and the hair.
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Post by Mr Nasty on Oct 13, 2004 2:23:19 GMT -5
DG: I'd like to point to something Py said a page or so back. Society used to need religion as a moral guide but we've got past that now. We have to be able to decide for ourselves to be good to one another.
I also said that, as long as monotheistic religions exist, this world has no chance of peace. I'm not wrong about that. It's a fact. Grailwolf has said already he reckons the birth of these religions had a large impact on the number of wars throughout the world and I tend to agree.
Pardon me for being all idealistic but the bottom line is that religion is unnecessary nowadays.
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Post by tjaman on Oct 13, 2004 3:18:21 GMT -5
[/color] I just have to distance myself from the people in the wake down there who I think are doing some incredible mission and service. I just write a check. I'm happy to and I'm doing it mostly because I really support their efforts, but they're the ones really out there helping the folks who lived through these terrible disasters.
It was the use of the personal pronoun "you." I think I'd be more comfortable with "you guys" -- or, in fact, "everyone who's helping" -- because the efforts are ecumenical and secular as well and I applaud all of them.
I think everyone helps out to the extent they're able. When the nation turned out to assist this region during the flood of '97 that destroyed Grand Forks, and when people sent aid and plasma to Ground Zero, that was incredible too. People's instincts can be really generous.
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Post by PyleansDontLeaveMe on Oct 13, 2004 9:46:05 GMT -5
TANGENT-
It bothers me that they won't accept my blood or plasma for donation.
I realize that it's based on the presumption that gay men (actually the guideline is - have you had same sex relations AT ALL since 1985. Just once is enough to bump you)
It just seems like a holdover of bigotry to me in many ways.
And it seems to rely on the image of AIDS as a gay mans disease, which is so clearly not the case.
Plus, it denies me an opportunity to help others in an easy and convenient way that also gives you cookies afterward.
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Post by AlyWay on Oct 13, 2004 9:57:26 GMT -5
and juice!
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Post by PyleansDontLeaveMe on Oct 13, 2004 9:58:04 GMT -5
See? Who doesn't love juice?
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Post by Mr Nasty on Oct 13, 2004 10:00:56 GMT -5
No doubt, juice is great.
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Post by Bango on Oct 13, 2004 10:06:40 GMT -5
[glow=blue,2,300]Poor PY. *snatches MrNasty's cookie and juice and gives them to PY*[/glow]
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