|
Post by Rebelman on Jul 4, 2005 10:56:19 GMT -5
One thing above all else: This is a text written from a perspective of an oppressed people living in exile, a message of hope for themselves and destruction called down upon their enemies.
What Jeremiah -- indeed, the Jews -- failed to take into account is the fact that the Babylonians are also children of G-d.
So while Jeremiah is writing that the LORD is saying things like: (Jer. 50:35ff): "Death to Babylonia! Death to its people, to its rulers, to its men of wisdom! Death to its lying prophets -- what fools they are! Death to its soldiers -- how terrified they are! Destroy its horses and chariots!" -- can't you just hear every pep rally you've ever been to?
C'mon, honestly, Reb: The LORD says, "Death to its people"? "Destroy its horses"?
Have you met the people of Babylonia? Heard their music? Listened to their poetry? Have you explored their ancient culture or experienced their hospitality?
The warriors in the conquering first Crusades did. After living with them for a few decades, they'd incorporated a lot of their customs into their daily life -- clothing, food, hospitality. Things they'd have balked at just a few years before as heathen nonsense, they were actively participating in. And they'd won.
So whatever G-d thinks about America, now, going in and conquering the Babylonians, I'm pretty sure he'd have something to say about 6 percent of the world's population consuming 30 percent of its resources.
I know Jeremiah would have something to say about it.
Before we all get too comfy.
And Happy Fourth of July, everyone. TJ the reason why Jeremiah is given this from God is because of what Babylon's did all the way back from the beginning. It is in Genesis. The actions they took against God and the violence they insued. The text isn't given from a perspective of another person. Jeremiah is a Prophet and it is given through the Lord. He is predicting from what he receives from the Lord will happen. If you read somemore you will see that Babylon will never again rise up again. The only time Babylon will rise up is the 2nd Babylon. Not the Iraq Babylon but the religious Babylon as stated in Revelations. When people will follow the Jezzebell and the Beast and establish one order among all nations. Many nations will willingly follow this figure and this figure will become all powerful. A lot of this may seem untrue to you folks. But I just hate to see many of yalls faces when these events take place. I have already stated events that have already come to pass and it still gets bashed. The bible is the inspiration of God and even Jesus says it is in the Gospel. Not just some of it, parts of it but all of it.
|
|
|
Post by Insane Troll Logic on Jul 4, 2005 10:58:06 GMT -5
*sigh* One more time.
In. Your. Opinion.
|
|
|
Post by Rebelman on Jul 4, 2005 11:04:16 GMT -5
Nothing I said is my opinion. I said it like it is prensented in the bible. Now if I start adding things to make it weird sounding then that would be my opinion.
|
|
|
Post by Insane Troll Logic on Jul 4, 2005 11:05:16 GMT -5
THAT is an opinion.
|
|
|
Post by Rebelman on Jul 4, 2005 11:11:19 GMT -5
"An inspiration from God" is not my opinion. It is in the bible. Nothing I have said is what I made up or changed the meaning. I just present it as it is.
Also check this out:
"I will send foreigners to Babylon to winnow her and devistate her land; they will oppose her on every side...."
How accurate is this. This has also taken place in Babylon(Iraq)
|
|
|
Post by Dr. Purple Goddess on Jul 4, 2005 11:16:42 GMT -5
"An inspiration from God" is not my opinion. It is in the bible. Nothing I have said is what I made up or changed the meaning. I just present it as it is. Also check this out: "I will send foreigners to Babylon to winnow her and devistate her land; they will oppose her on every side...." How accurate is this. This has also taken place in Babylon(Iraq) and the fact that you put Iraq in parenthesis is considered an opinion. As that is NOT in the bible. You are making interpretations so all interpretations are your opinion. As some may have different interpretations of the passages you quote. So just remember that and maybe people would be more willing to focus on your point rather than quibbling over opinion.
|
|
|
Post by Rebelman on Jul 4, 2005 11:18:54 GMT -5
"An inspiration from God" is not my opinion. It is in the bible. Nothing I have said is what I made up or changed the meaning. I just present it as it is. Also check this out: "I will send foreigners to Babylon to winnow her and devistate her land; they will oppose her on every side...." How accurate is this. This has also taken place in Babylon(Iraq) and the fact that you put Iraq in parenthesis is considered an opinion. As that is NOT in the bible. You are making interpretations so all interpretations are your opinion. As some may have different interpretations of the passages you quote. So just remember that and maybe people would be more willing to focus on your point rather than quibbling over opinion.I didn't make the Iraq part up. I've done my homework and Babylon is exactly where Iraq is now. Along the Euphates river. It even speaks of there mountain and various other things in the area.
|
|
|
Post by tjaman on Jul 4, 2005 11:24:47 GMT -5
Out of mild curiosity, Reb, what is your point?
So right now Iraq seems to be on the losing side of history. So did Germany and Japan 60 years ago. Stuff is always happening all over the place to everyone and you can point to specific passages in the Bible and say "See? See?"
It doesn't prove anything. Jeremiah could've been talking about something that happened 3,000 years ago. He could be talking about something that will never happen.
* sigh * But because you're quoting the Bible and are therefore unquestionably right, what is your point?
|
|
|
Post by Rebelman on Jul 4, 2005 11:27:14 GMT -5
Did the burning fuel part not sound familiar or something. They didn't even use fuel or anything 3,000 years ago. Fuel burning up and nations getting scared. That happened lately. Why is it so hard for people to believe what they read instead of finding something alternate for everything. Some of this may be scary but it is happening.
|
|
|
Post by Dr. Purple Goddess on Jul 4, 2005 11:27:27 GMT -5
and the fact that you put Iraq in parenthesis is considered an opinion. As that is NOT in the bible. You are making interpretations so all interpretations are your opinion. As some may have different interpretations of the passages you quote. So just remember that and maybe people would be more willing to focus on your point rather than quibbling over opinion. I didn't make the Iraq part up. I've done my homework and Babylon is exactly where Iraq is now. Along the Euphates river. It even speaks of there mountain and various other things in the area. Not saying you made anything up. Just saying it isn't stated in the Bible. Also, near a river and a mountain? And just how many places foot that bill? Got any other landmarks that are stated in the Bible that would prove conclusive? I'm thinking no, In My Opinion. But gimme what ya got.
|
|
|
Post by Rebelman on Jul 4, 2005 11:35:29 GMT -5
I expected much opposition but that is ok.
Here we go with some more:
"My people have been lost sheep; their shepherds have led them astray and caused them to roam on the mountains. They wandered over mouintain and hill and forgot their own resting place. Whoever found them devoured them; their enemies said "We are not guilty" for they sinned against the Lord, their true pasture, the Lord, the hope of their fathers"
Sounds familiar to me
"For I will stir up and bring against Babylon an alliance of great nations from the north"
Already happened.
"The will take up their positions against her and from the north she will be captured"
The alliance of nations capture Babylon.
"Shout against her on every side! She surrenders, her towers fall, her walls are torn down"
Already happened.
This is all referring to this area not some other area. This vision is totally devoted to this area.
|
|
|
Post by tjaman on Jul 4, 2005 11:35:35 GMT -5
Did the burning fuel part not sound familiar or something. They didn't even use fuel or anything 3,000 years ago. Fuel burning up and nations getting scared. That happened lately. Why is it so hard for people to believe what they read instead of finding something alternate for everything. Some of this may be scary but it is happening. In re the bolded part: What do you suppose they used in their lamps, Reb?
It's not "scary." It's irrelevant.
|
|
|
Post by Rebelman on Jul 4, 2005 11:38:05 GMT -5
Did the burning fuel part not sound familiar or something. They didn't even use fuel or anything 3,000 years ago. Fuel burning up and nations getting scared. That happened lately. Why is it so hard for people to believe what they read instead of finding something alternate for everything. Some of this may be scary but it is happening. In re the bolded part: What do you suppose they used in their lamps, Reb?
It's not "scary." It's irrelevant.People used lamps 3,000 years ago. Maybe candlelight but lamps. Why is what I just wrote just got to be wrong in every single way possible?
|
|
|
Post by tjaman on Jul 4, 2005 11:41:22 GMT -5
And from their perspective, they're just living their lives under an oppressive dictatorial regime, people keep shooting at them, bombs keep going off, none of their water, electrical, or infrastructural systems are working or reliable, their most outrageous religious leaders are telling them that their attackers are evil and darned if that message isn't sticking a little bit for some of them.
You think we're coming out of this "liberation" we're doing over there looking especially good?
* reflecting on our horrific behavior in the Abu Grabby prison * You're not suggesting for a moment that G-d's OK with that, are you?
|
|
|
Post by Insane Troll Logic on Jul 4, 2005 11:44:27 GMT -5
Reb - Mesopotamia has ALWAYS been an area of wars, invasions, empire building, you name it. There were invasions around 1900bc when the Sumerian empire fell which led to the rise of the Babylonian empire. The Assyrians, Persians, Alexander the great, the Selucids and the Partheans held Babylon. The Romans were there. EVERYONE has had an interest in holding Babylon, and Mesopotamia in general - for reasons of trade, politics, strategic location, oil, you name it.
So linking these prophecies with the current conflict seems meaningless, to me.
|
|