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Post by tjaman on Jul 4, 2005 12:29:39 GMT -5
Again ... really taking your word for it on how horrible a person you used to be, but I'm fairly certain you've done nothing outside the pale of G-d's forgiveness. And if you've been forgiven, it's a was. G-d's not dwelling on it so ... well, probably you shouldn't either.
Just ... yeah, what Feigy said about being confrontational and pushing people away, y'know?
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Post by Dr. Purple Goddess on Jul 4, 2005 12:44:00 GMT -5
As you can tell I am very serious regarding this subject and I won't give up. I have gained a friend of mine back when he realized I was right all along and what would happen if he didn't straighten his act up. He even got a bank account like I suggested so he can start a family with his girlfriend. I think I have grown quite a bit. Compare me to what I use to be. I use to be a horrible person back then. But when I finally found my way I am able to express myself easily. I don't try to tear people down. I just give a fore warning. Because if I dont warn my people I will bear their plank in my eye as well. A warning excludes that plank from me that I at least tried. Okay, 1. NO ONE is saying you should give up we respect your conviction. And NOT because we don't have any of our own. But because it's yours. 2. I'm glad you have a friend that has decided you are right. (IMO) It's nice being right in other people's eyes. Hmm that sounds like one of those pesky sins I've read about. Which one is that? Oh right, pride. So, anyway. Be careful, the person who creates a path, gets blamed for the potholes. 3. There's that pesky opinion again. YOU don't believe you are tearing people down. But if THEY believe, it's just as real. And being told that one has to accept your opinions just because the bible is blessed by God and therefore all you say about it is true...That's a teardown. So, just because you think you aren't doesn't mean it isn't happening, and doesn't mean you shouldn't take responsibility for that. 4. As a mental health professional, I have a duty to warn when someone is a danger to themselves or others. I have a DUTY to do all I can to make sure they don't. But you know what? People still manage to kill themselves or murder their wifes/husbands etc. Because there's no way I can make them believe it is not good for them or is wrong to do so. I can only talk with them. Empathise with them. I can only report to the proper authorities when I know there to be danger. You cannot make people believe as you do. You cannot judge them or only take an interest in them if you are only trying to get them to see things your way. You have to genuinely care about their feelings and prespectives in order to be a good conveyer of ideas. The moment you narrow yourself in mind, the moment they tune you out and decide you don't care about them, but only what you deem to be true. I have more but I should let someone else have a turn.
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Post by Dr. Purple Goddess on Jul 4, 2005 12:52:41 GMT -5
....Oooh the Movie "Dogma" is on.... /me giggles with evil glee
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Post by quantumcat on Jul 4, 2005 14:08:26 GMT -5
we do have an obligation to share with people but at a certain point,it not only gets useless,it becomes counter-productive. The Holy Spirit has a lot more experience and expertise doing this than we have. God can choose to make his initial gestures through us but then he can continue the process on his own. Ask Py about fire. Not all conflagurations are these big,instant infernoes. Some smolder for a long time,so imperceptible that you can't detect them by smell or touch. But a spark within has been ignited and sooner or later,the flames burst forth. Fires within a soul can operate the same way. you hover over them when you want to keep them contained or put the fire out. Otherwise,the same things that start the burning can keep it going forever. So,we've established that yes,you are to witness and no,you aren't supposed to do the whole of the work by yourself. You let the Holy Spirit do the hard part. It's what he does best.
As for your awareness of how far you've come, that's great so long as it's noticing the changes of how much God has worked with you and being grateful. The downside is,sometimes we're so caught up in our negative pasts that we get in the way of our futures. (not saying you're in danger of this but the phenomenon occurs.) I 've committed to memory the words I heard a man of God say once on this subject. He told that guilt was like other forms of pain. It was a tool to let us know when something was wrong,restrict behaviour that might cause further injury and let us know how our healing is progressing. When physical,mental or spiritual discomfort exceeds what's needed to accomplish those tasks ,it actually becomes a problem instead of a solution. He said that God does not endorse that kind of pain and nature would have no need to induce it either. When a person can't let go of thoughts about their fallen nature and is subjected to constant rehashes of their old sins,the source of the reminders is probably the Enemy himself. Why would he insist on such reminiscing? One,it gets in the way of your current progress and two,it's his way of complaining. "what have you done for me lately?" The more Satan has to dredge up the same few sins to beat us over the head,the more evident it becomes that he's lacking material to work with. He's stuck with reruns.
You could go around town telling everybody about your weight lifting regime and your whey supplement 24/7 or you could mention it in passing and walk around with clear eyes,glowing skin and hair, supple movements,effortless strength,good wind and the buff physique of a wild puma. Now,which 'testimony' do you think will attract the most attention? Use that same sales pitch in the realm of the spirit and you should have no trouble winning souls without unduly alarming others.
I just thought of another analogy.
Some girl comes up and starts acting like she's gonna be the love of your life. Before you're good and introduced,she's pestering you to pick out china patterns. you'd think she was a stalker and get the heebie- jeebies every time you passed a bridal store.
On the other hand,if she smiles and says she sure would like to know you better,lets you have some say about how fast to pursue the relationship and reaches out to you without trying to put you in a hammerlock,then you might just be the one to seek her out. you're apt to be ready for marriage a lot earlier if she doesn't start shoving jewelry store flyers at you on your first date.
Is there anything wrong with romance? Nope. But sometimes a person just isn't ready for it and sometimes when they are ready, the person who leads them to that point isn't the one that's been dropping hints for them to wise up. If some of our crushes are gonna wind up with other people,some of the folks we try to lead to the Lord are going to blow us off and surrender to Jack Chick or Billy Graham. That's between them and God. We're here to give them a choice but the choice has to be theirs. We can share our faith but they have to be ready to accept it before it can become their own.
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Post by Aunt Arlene on Jul 4, 2005 17:27:27 GMT -5
....Oooh the Movie "Dogma" is on.... /me giggles with evil glee * giggles right along *
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Post by Rebelman on Jul 4, 2005 17:27:33 GMT -5
Again ... really taking your word for it on how horrible a person you used to be, but I'm fairly certain you've done nothing outside the pale of G-d's forgiveness. And if you've been forgiven, it's a was. G-d's not dwelling on it so ... well, probably you shouldn't either.
Just ... yeah, what Feigy said about being confrontational and pushing people away, y'know? I don't really dwell on my past like I use to. But I do use it for a cornerstone that change can happen. And about pushy, I really am not that pushy. I do try to lay out something for folks when they need it.
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Post by Rebelman on Jul 4, 2005 17:33:44 GMT -5
As you can tell I am very serious regarding this subject and I won't give up. I have gained a friend of mine back when he realized I was right all along and what would happen if he didn't straighten his act up. He even got a bank account like I suggested so he can start a family with his girlfriend. I think I have grown quite a bit. Compare me to what I use to be. I use to be a horrible person back then. But when I finally found my way I am able to express myself easily. I don't try to tear people down. I just give a fore warning. Because if I dont warn my people I will bear their plank in my eye as well. A warning excludes that plank from me that I at least tried. Okay, 1. NO ONE is saying you should give up we respect your conviction. And NOT because we don't have any of our own. But because it's yours. 2. I'm glad you have a friend that has decided you are right. (IMO) It's nice being right in other people's eyes. Hmm that sounds like one of those pesky sins I've read about. Which one is that? Oh right, pride. So, anyway. Be careful, the person who creates a path, gets blamed for the potholes. 3. There's that pesky opinion again. YOU don't believe you are tearing people down. But if THEY believe, it's just as real. And being told that one has to accept your opinions just because the bible is blessed by God and therefore all you say about it is true...That's a teardown. So, just because you think you aren't doesn't mean it isn't happening, and doesn't mean you shouldn't take responsibility for that. 4. As a mental health professional, I have a duty to warn when someone is a danger to themselves or others. I have a DUTY to do all I can to make sure they don't. But you know what? People still manage to kill themselves or murder their wifes/husbands etc. Because there's no way I can make them believe it is not good for them or is wrong to do so. I can only talk with them. Empathise with them. I can only report to the proper authorities when I know there to be danger. You cannot make people believe as you do. You cannot judge them or only take an interest in them if you are only trying to get them to see things your way. You have to genuinely care about their feelings and prespectives in order to be a good conveyer of ideas. The moment you narrow yourself in mind, the moment they tune you out and decide you don't care about them, but only what you deem to be true. I have more but I should let someone else have a turn. I'm really not full of pride. That is when I care only about myself and care more for my needs then trying to help others. I am nothing like that. Sure I am sure I sin everyday. Sometimes I probably am not aware of it. But I repent anyway because I know I have. I am definetly not going to make myself feel like crap. About me tearing people down. I know what a tear down is and I have been there before. Are yall trying to tell me I shouldn't say what I have to say? That I should keep my mouth shut? When I see my own people having issues I cannot keep my mouth shut. I do get upset things when I can't get people the help they need or whatever the case they need. But I do show encouragement darnit. There is no way I am going to abandon people no matter how horrible people think I am. ' I have a question: What do yall think would be a better way for me to be a friend? Is my way like the horrible evil way?
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Post by Charisma69 on Jul 4, 2005 18:45:14 GMT -5
I have a question: What do yall think would be a better way for me to be a friend? Is my way like the horrible evil way? In my opinion the best way to be a friend is to be there when your friends need you.
Being a good listener is sometimes the best thing you can do for a person. Listening without judging them and telling them they are going to hell if they don't change their ways.
I have a friend who has some serious issues. She is going through a really rough time with her depression - and has been for some time.
She is a self-mutilator and I wish I knew how to get her to stop, but the only thing I can really do is be there for her when she wants to talk about it.
We have other friends and they judge her, tell her it's wrong, etc. So you know what she does? She hides it from them. How can they help her if she doesn't feel she can talk to them?
They are way too pushy with her so she has shut them out.
I talk to her about her depression in a non-judgmental way. I try to encourage her to seek counseling but without being pushy about it because if I'm constantly nagging her about it she'll stop talking to me about it.
So I try to be really subtle about things and lead by example. She sees how much happier I am since I've gotten my depression under control and I know she wants that for herself.
She has finally made an appointment to see someone. My patience is starting to pay off.
It will still be a long road but if I had been pushing her and nagging at her all the time I don't think she would be working on getting help now.
It's the same way with your faith. You will have better results in the long run if you take a more subtle approach to your witness. Be a good friend and listen. Lead by example, not by being pushy and trying to nag people into following you.
Because when you push too hard you have the tendency to push people in the wrong direction.
I know if I'm pushed, I'll push back. I'm very unlikely to listen to someone who is trying to shove their beliefs down my throat - no matter how good their intentions.
But if they are willing to listen to me and not tell me that they are completely right and they are "sad" because I don't see things their way then I am going to tune them out because that is arrogant and disrespectful and I have no use for that kind of attitude.
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Post by Rebelman on Jul 4, 2005 19:08:41 GMT -5
I have a question: What do yall think would be a better way for me to be a friend? Is my way like the horrible evil way? In my opinion the best way to be a friend is to be there when your friends need you.
Being a good listener is sometimes the best thing you can do for a person. Listening without judging them and telling them they are going to hell if they don't change their ways.
I have a friend who has some serious issues. She is going through a really rough time with her depression - and has been for some time.
She is a self-mutilator and I wish I knew how to get her to stop, but the only thing I can really do is be there for her when she wants to talk about it.
We have other friends and they judge her, tell her it's wrong, etc. So you know what she does? She hides it from them. How can they help her if she doesn't feel she can talk to them?
They are way too pushy with her so she has shut them out.
I talk to her about her depression in a non-judgmental way. I try to encourage her to seek counseling but without being pushy about it because if I'm constantly nagging her about it she'll stop talking to me about it.
So I try to be really subtle about things and lead by example. She sees how much happier I am since I've gotten my depression under control and I know she wants that for herself.
She has finally made an appointment to see someone. My patience is starting to pay off.
It will still be a long road but if I had been pushing her and nagging at her all the time I don't think she would be working on getting help now.
It's the same way with your faith. You will have better results in the long run if you take a more subtle approach to your witness. Be a good friend and listen. Lead by example, not by being pushy and trying to nag people into following you.
Because when you push too hard you have the tendency to push people in the wrong direction.
I know if I'm pushed, I'll push back. I'm very unlikely to listen to someone who is trying to shove their beliefs down my throat - no matter how good their intentions.
But if they are willing to listen to me and not tell me that they are completely right and they are "sad" because I don't see things their way then I am going to tune them out because that is arrogant and disrespectful and I have no use for that kind of attitude.
Listening and not opening my mouth is very hard for me to do. I feel like I am going to break my teeth I have to keep my mouth shut so hard. This is strong in me. And I won't everybody else to be saved and strong. That is why I care and restate myself so often. I find it very hard to not care.
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Post by Aunt Arlene on Jul 4, 2005 19:33:14 GMT -5
This is strong in me. And I won't everybody else to be saved and strong. That is why I care and restate myself so often. I find it very hard to not care. You have to realize that to those of us that don't want to be saved, your viewpoint sounds awfully arrogant.
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Post by Charisma69 on Jul 4, 2005 19:40:21 GMT -5
In my opinion the best way to be a friend is to be there when your friends need you.
Being a good listener is sometimes the best thing you can do for a person. Listening without judging them and telling them they are going to hell if they don't change their ways.
I have a friend who has some serious issues. She is going through a really rough time with her depression - and has been for some time.
She is a self-mutilator and I wish I knew how to get her to stop, but the only thing I can really do is be there for her when she wants to talk about it.
We have other friends and they judge her, tell her it's wrong, etc. So you know what she does? She hides it from them. How can they help her if she doesn't feel she can talk to them?
They are way too pushy with her so she has shut them out.
I talk to her about her depression in a non-judgmental way. I try to encourage her to seek counseling but without being pushy about it because if I'm constantly nagging her about it she'll stop talking to me about it.
So I try to be really subtle about things and lead by example. She sees how much happier I am since I've gotten my depression under control and I know she wants that for herself.
She has finally made an appointment to see someone. My patience is starting to pay off.
It will still be a long road but if I had been pushing her and nagging at her all the time I don't think she would be working on getting help now.
It's the same way with your faith. You will have better results in the long run if you take a more subtle approach to your witness. Be a good friend and listen. Lead by example, not by being pushy and trying to nag people into following you.
Because when you push too hard you have the tendency to push people in the wrong direction.
I know if I'm pushed, I'll push back. I'm very unlikely to listen to someone who is trying to shove their beliefs down my throat - no matter how good their intentions.
But if they are willing to listen to me and not tell me that they are completely right and they are "sad" because I don't see things their way then I am going to tune them out because that is arrogant and disrespectful and I have no use for that kind of attitude.
Listening and not opening my mouth is very hard for me to do. I feel like I am going to break my teeth I have to keep my mouth shut so hard. This is strong in me. And I won't everybody else to be saved and strong. That is why I care and restate myself so often. I find it very hard to not care. I didn't tell you not to care. I said learn to listen and respect the views of others.
Learn to have a more positive and less pushy form of witness. You'll be much more effective that way. You must find your balance. All your going to succeed in doing is pushing people away if you witness like this.
It's like Jo-Jo at work. He's not new to management, but he's new to management at McDonald's.
So he's basically like where you are spiritually. He's still learning the ropes.
I used to be a manager at McDonald's. I know the procedures backwards, forwards, and inside out but I have chosen not to be a manager any longer.
Doesn't mean I don't still know how to do the job, just I went back to college and I'm on a different path now.
So, (and I believe I've told this story already but it applies here) you would think he would listen to my advice being as how I have much more experience at the store than he does right? Wrong.
One day I'm by myself on the table making a Big Mac. He's is waiting for it so he asks me to hurry it up. I tell him that I have to wait for the bun to toast.
We say a few more things back and forth then he tells me he's just trying to motivate me.
Well, being as how I know the job much better than he does and I can run circles around him in any position, he pisses me off with that statement and I tell him "The only thing you're going to motivate me to do it knock you upside the head".
Not the best thing to say but he was being pushy and not very effective at what he was trying to accomplish.
See, he needs to learn with people need the extra motivation and which ones don't. He also needs to find a better way to motivate people or he's going to loose employees.
He also should learn to take the advice of others who are more experienced that he is because he would be a much better manager in the long run if he did.
But we all must remember that there is no absolute right or wrong way to do most things. Everyone must find their own style for doing things. Some styles are way more effective than others though.
When I was a manager I could motivate employees just fine without being pushy or an @ss to them. I could even get the so-called lazy ones to work for me. They wouldn't work for any other manager but me.
How did I accomplish this task? I did my job and set a good example for the employees.
I lets them have some slack to goof off a bit as long as things got done and they weren't doing anything inappropriate.
I had higher standards of cleanliness than any of the other night managers and at first some of the crew didn't like it - until they saw me working harder than they were. And they saw that I wouldn't stand around and make them do things I wasn't willing to do myself.
See in order to lead people and have respect you must first earn it from them.
When I first came back to Farmington McDonald's after being in Fredericktown for a year I had to earn the respect of the night crew - most of which were teenagers who didn't need their jobs.
So one night Daniel was supposed to close the lobby before he left. I went to check it and let him know whether he could go home. I found several things wrong with it and wouldn't let him leave until he fixed them. He was pissed.
But I told him exactly what to expect from me and let him know if he does things right the first time then he won't have to go back and redo things.
Well later on down the road he moved up to management and he thanked me for being so hard on him. He said he would have never made it into management if I hadn't set such a good example for him.
That made me feel good - still does actually.
I had crew that would work for me off the clock if I asked them to. They were extremely loyal to me and they worked harder for me than they would for any other manager in the store.
I really miss some of those kids.
So you see, you can be much more effective if you lead by example and earn the respect of others instead of forcing them to see things your way.
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Post by Rebelman on Jul 4, 2005 21:16:47 GMT -5
So you saying I should live my life like I do now and instead of saying something let the people around me see what I do and lead some kind of example instead of using my words?
That may work in aspects but that may not always work. Some will continue to be blind regardless of any approach I may take. Especially when it comes to any kind of problems going on in their life. I try my best to talk with my friends to encourage them to be wonderful and find their way.
I have poured my heart out to these people and I don't want them to fail especially if I see something bad possibly happening on the rise. It is very hard for me to just close my mouth and watch downfall and tragedy and heartache right at my eyes and thinking to myself the whole time "Why aren't I saying anything again". I hate for people to be in pain and yet there is so much around. I try my best to downsize my friends pain the best possible. Heck I even put my due dates to the side, homework, let my cell phone bill skyrocket, all of that just to try to talk and make there lives better because that is the type of person I am. The one that goes all out. The one who doesn't mind stepping in there and going for an alternate way to make someones life a bit easier.
Nobodys life will ever be easy, especially not a follower of Christ. I realized this myself a while back. Things just won't be simple. There will be heartache, pain, disscouragement, criticism, and betrayal and all of this is due to darkness. I am sure I have darkness at times because that is the dark sides plan to make me succomb and not give a flying flitter about it. To make me a non-believer and renounce Christ. I will never do that ever.
Will I hold my own against criticism? Yes full heartedly. I know the power of Christ regardless of whether anyone wants to believe me or not. I know what I have learned and plan to make it live on forever.
Many seem to take another route. The non believing route. From what I hear these folks do not believe in Christ, which they seem to throw into a religion and the creator is not, they seem to believe they will be just dead when the die. I don't understand this really. I mean what do you have to live for? Just earthly possessions? That is not what makes a person really. Those are just materialistic objects. Real character comes from within not what you acquire.
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Post by GreatMuppetyNick on Jul 4, 2005 22:17:29 GMT -5
So you saying I should live my life like I do now and instead of saying something let the people around me see what I do and lead some kind of example instead of using my words? That may work in aspects but that may not always work. Some will continue to be blind regardless of any approach I may take. Especially when it comes to any kind of problems going on in their life. I try my best to talk with my friends to encourage them to be wonderful and find their way. I have poured my heart out to these people and I don't want them to fail especially if I see something bad possibly happening on the rise. It is very hard for me to just close my mouth and watch downfall and tragedy and heartache right at my eyes and thinking to myself the whole time "Why aren't I saying anything again". I hate for people to be in pain and yet there is so much around. I try my best to downsize my friends pain the best possible. Heck I even put my due dates to the side, homework, let my cell phone bill skyrocket, all of that just to try to talk and make there lives better because that is the type of person I am. The one that goes all out. The one who doesn't mind stepping in there and going for an alternate way to make someones life a bit easier. Nobodys life will ever be easy, especially not a follower of Christ. I realized this myself a while back. Things just won't be simple. There will be heartache, pain, disscouragement, criticism, and betrayal and all of this is due to darkness. I am sure I have darkness at times because that is the dark sides plan to make me succomb and not give a flying flitter about it. To make me a non-believer and renounce Christ. I will never do that ever. Will I hold my own against criticism? Yes full heartedly. I know the power of Christ regardless of whether anyone wants to believe me or not. I know what I have learned and plan to make it live on forever. Many seem to take another route. The non believing route. From what I hear these folks do not believe in Christ, which they seem to throw into a religion and the creator is not, they seem to believe they will be just dead when the die. I don't understand this really. I mean what do you have to live for? Just earthly possessions? That is not what makes a person really. Those are just materialistic objects. Real character comes from within not what you acquire. What makes you think constantly preaching and taking the higher ground is helping anybody?? If anything, you're turning people away from the religion. Maybe you haven't noticed, but I've been avoiding having religious discussions wih you for a while now. Not because I hate you or dislike you or anything, but because sometimes you make me want to bang my head againts the wall.
When I was much younger, I was interested in all things regarding religion. I would read up of stories and fables and stuff. This was before a teacher of mine took an interest in "saving me". She would do like you did, preaching endlessly on the evil of my ways, and being incredible close-minded on any other explainations.
My interest waned pretty quickly after that. I even took to avoiding that teacher too. I'm telling you this because you have to realize that you're not helping anyone this way. The only ones you would only reach are those who already predisposed towards your way of thinking.
I'm not saying you shouldn't try to share your beliefs, but you're going about it the wrong way. Right now, you're just giving me the impression of a group of rabid, close-minded, literallist whose only reason to life is because they can justify themselves in their faith. I'm not saying that you are, but that you're really making it easier to make that assumption.
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Post by Charisma69 on Jul 5, 2005 0:22:51 GMT -5
So you saying I should live my life like I do now and instead of saying something let the people around me see what I do and lead some kind of example instead of using my words? That may work in aspects but that may not always work. Some will continue to be blind regardless of any approach I may take. Especially when it comes to any kind of problems going on in their life. I try my best to talk with my friends to encourage them to be wonderful and find their way. I have poured my heart out to these people and I don't want them to fail especially if I see something bad possibly happening on the rise. It is very hard for me to just close my mouth and watch downfall and tragedy and heartache right at my eyes and thinking to myself the whole time "Why aren't I saying anything again". I hate for people to be in pain and yet there is so much around. I try my best to downsize my friends pain the best possible. Heck I even put my due dates to the side, homework, let my cell phone bill skyrocket, all of that just to try to talk and make there lives better because that is the type of person I am. The one that goes all out. The one who doesn't mind stepping in there and going for an alternate way to make someones life a bit easier. Nobody's life will ever be easy, especially not a follower of Christ. I realized this myself a while back. Things just won't be simple. There will be heartache, pain, disscouragement, criticism, and betrayal and all of this is due to darkness. I am sure I have darkness at times because that is the dark sides plan to make me succomb and not give a flying flitter about it. To make me a non-believer and renounce Christ. I will never do that ever. Will I hold my own against criticism? Yes full heartedly. I know the power of Christ regardless of whether anyone wants to believe me or not. I know what I have learned and plan to make it live on forever. Many seem to take another route. The non believing route. From what I hear these folks do not believe in Christ, which they seem to throw into a religion and the creator is not, they seem to believe they will be just dead when the die. I don't understand this really. I mean what do you have to live for? Just earthly possessions? That is not what makes a person really. Those are just materialistic objects. Real character comes from within not what you acquire. Okay Reb, you're my friend so please don't take this the wrong way ...
Are you even reading my posts? I mean really reading them?
The criticism you are receiving has absolutely nothing to do with you being a Christian! It has to do with your attitude about being a Christian.
I'm not asking you not to speak about your faith, I'm asking you to try not to force people to believe as you do.
That attitude will just turn people away from Christ. Is that what you want?
If you, and others like you (and there are many of them out there), keep on trying to force people to look at the world your way you will be doing Satan's job for him.
You will be turning people away from God not leading them to God.
Back to my work example. We had managers that manage just like you try to witness.
They try to force people to behave and see the job the way they do. They were arrogant while trying to motivate their employees.
You know what they accomplished?
They got people to quit and look for another job.
Why, because they were acting like an @ss.
But like you they couldn't see that either.
They never understood how I could get people to work for me and they couldn't.
Most of those managers are gone, but we still have a few with that sort of attitude. They are very ineffective at their jobs because people don't want to work for them.
When I lead by example I didn't shut my mouth or anything, I just didn't act like an @ss with people.
I led by example, when they asked why things had to be done a certain way I explained it to them.
They respected me and enjoyed working during my shifts.
I was an effective manager because I led by example and didn't try to force people to listen to me.
That is what you need to do.
I don't want you to stop your witness. I don't want you to stop believing in God.
I just want you to realize you are turning people away by doing things the way you are doing them.
Hell, you're nearly turning me away and I believe in God. The attitude you have is the same kind of attitude that keeps me from going to Church. I didn't like dealing with people like that in the Church so I stopped going.
That's the attitude that's keeping me from going back to Church.
I understand that you have good intentions, but you are going about things the wrong way.
There is a better way to do this.
And please stop saying that people are attacking you for your beliefs because that's not true.
THEY ARE ATTACKING YOUR ATTITUDE NOT YOUR BELIEFS!!!!
Please see that, please. You are making me want to bang my head against the wall. I feel like I'm talking to dead air.
You don't seem to understand what I'm trying to tell you, which is the same thing I've been trying to get through your head for months now.
Nobody is attacking your beliefs so stop saying they are. You really seem to have the fascination with being a martyr don't you?
I really hope you don't think I hate you, or that I'm mad at you because I'm not.
I'm just really sad that you don't seem to understand a word I'm saying. I'm heartbroken and confused as to why you wish to believe we are attacking you when we're not.
Some of us do believe in God just as you do, we just don't agree with your witness style.
All you're going to manage to do is turn people away from God.
*Prays that this post is not in vain but is very afraid it is*
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Post by Rebelman on Jul 5, 2005 0:46:37 GMT -5
So you saying I should live my life like I do now and instead of saying something let the people around me see what I do and lead some kind of example instead of using my words? That may work in aspects but that may not always work. Some will continue to be blind regardless of any approach I may take. Especially when it comes to any kind of problems going on in their life. I try my best to talk with my friends to encourage them to be wonderful and find their way. I have poured my heart out to these people and I don't want them to fail especially if I see something bad possibly happening on the rise. It is very hard for me to just close my mouth and watch downfall and tragedy and heartache right at my eyes and thinking to myself the whole time "Why aren't I saying anything again". I hate for people to be in pain and yet there is so much around. I try my best to downsize my friends pain the best possible. Heck I even put my due dates to the side, homework, let my cell phone bill skyrocket, all of that just to try to talk and make there lives better because that is the type of person I am. The one that goes all out. The one who doesn't mind stepping in there and going for an alternate way to make someones life a bit easier. Nobody's life will ever be easy, especially not a follower of Christ. I realized this myself a while back. Things just won't be simple. There will be heartache, pain, disscouragement, criticism, and betrayal and all of this is due to darkness. I am sure I have darkness at times because that is the dark sides plan to make me succomb and not give a flying flitter about it. To make me a non-believer and renounce Christ. I will never do that ever. Will I hold my own against criticism? Yes full heartedly. I know the power of Christ regardless of whether anyone wants to believe me or not. I know what I have learned and plan to make it live on forever. Many seem to take another route. The non believing route. From what I hear these folks do not believe in Christ, which they seem to throw into a religion and the creator is not, they seem to believe they will be just dead when the die. I don't understand this really. I mean what do you have to live for? Just earthly possessions? That is not what makes a person really. Those are just materialistic objects. Real character comes from within not what you acquire. Okay Reb, you're my friend so please don't take this the wrong way ...
Are you even reading my posts? I mean really reading them?
The criticism you are receiving has absolutely nothing to do with you being a Christian! It has to do with your attitude about being a Christian.
I'm not asking you not to speak about your faith, I'm asking you to try not to force people to believe as you do.
That attitude will just turn people away from Christ. Is that what you want?
If you, and others like you (and there are many of them out there), keep on trying to force people to look at the world your way you will be doing Satan's job for him.
You will be turning people away from God not leading them to God.
Back to my work example. We had managers that manage just like you try to witness.
They try to force people to behave and see the job the way they do. They were arrogant while trying to motivate their employees.
You know what they accomplished?
They got people to quit and look for another job.
Why, because they were acting like an @ss.
But like you they couldn't see that either.
They never understood how I could get people to work for me and they couldn't.
Most of those managers are gone, but we still have a few with that sort of attitude. They are very ineffective at their jobs because people don't want to work for them.
When I lead by example I didn't shut my mouth or anything, I just didn't act like an @ss with people.
I led by example, when they asked why things had to be done a certain way I explained it to them.
They respected me and enjoyed working during my shifts.
I was an effective manager because I led by example and didn't try to force people to listen to me.
That is what you need to do.
I don't want you to stop your witness. I don't want you to stop believing in God.
I just want you to realize you are turning people away by doing things the way you are doing them.
Hell, you're nearly turning me away and I believe in God. The attitude you have is the same kind of attitude that keeps me from going to Church. I didn't like dealing with people like that in the Church so I stopped going.
That's the attitude that's keeping me from going back to Church.
I understand that you have good intentions, but you are going about things the wrong way.
There is a better way to do this.
And please stop saying that people are attacking you for your beliefs because that's not true.
THEY ARE ATTACKING YOUR ATTITUDE NOT YOUR BELIEFS!!!!
Please see that, please. You are making me want to bang my head against the wall. I feel like I'm talking to dead air.
You don't seem to understand what I'm trying to tell you, which is the same thing I've been trying to get through your head for months now.
Nobody is attacking your beliefs so stop saying they are. You really seem to have the fascination with being a martyr don't you?
I really hope you don't think I hate you, or that I'm mad at you because I'm not.
I'm just really sad that you don't seem to understand a word I'm saying. I'm heartbroken and confused as to why you wish to believe we are attacking you when we're not.
Some of us do believe in God just as you do, we just don't agree with your witness style.
All you're going to manage to do is turn people away from God.
*Prays that this post is not in vain but is very afraid it is*
I am not really forcing people to do anything really. I say what I learn from what I attain. That really isn't forcing but defending myself against what I say. Would yall prefer me to accept that I might be wrong in what I say. Yall have to understand that when I have salvation going on I really have it going on. I'll try something else in my next post and if it gets people ticked off then I will be completely assured that everything I say will tick people off. How about I describe my experiences from March up to now and how they have changed me for the better?
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